Use sub level as a substitute for receiver's Bass tone control?

[BrianZ]

I recently got a Marantz AVR (my first proper AVR). I love the Marantz sound, and also really love being able to use bass management to seamlessly integrate my sub into the system (it's just 2.1, but whatever). The one thing I miss from my old stereo receiver is the ability to easily tweak the external T & B controls. But it occurred to me that I might be able to mimic this function on the bass end with the sub level control.

Has anyone tried this? Which cross0ver setting would work best do you think? IOW what is the approx frequency range of the typical Bass control.

I'm also open to "No, it won't work very well and here's why: . . . "

Thanks.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

You can certainly do that, and I do adjust the output of my subs to suit some music. You do need to be aware however that the bass and treble controls in all receivers/preamps has its slope as 6dB per octave, where the slope of the crossover in your sub is more like 18-24 dB per octave. The normal bass control will effect the range above 100 Hz or so where the sub crossover will leave this area pretty much untouched. Here is the slope of a normal bass and treble control. You can see that the slopes are very broad and gentle:

This does not preclude doing what you want to do however, but the lower the sub crossover, the less of the bass range will be boosted. My sub is crossed over at 100Hz (yes, even with huge speakers), and that works well in my room. You might want to experiment with your setup if you want to do this.

 

[BrianZ]

That's exactly the sort of info I was looking for. I had a suspicion that the slopes would be a major difference. Good to know- thanks!

I too set my crossover at 100 Hz despite having mains that are rather bass capable (PSB Synchrony One B). Allowing my mains to focus all their energy on their bread-n-butter range just feels like a good idea. Those charts make me think that setting the crossover as high as the sub will tolerate (and perform well) might be the best approach. I'll do some playing around.

Thanks again -- great post, man!

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Be aware too that with the sub crossover at 100Hz, if the sub is located relatively far from your mains, the bass might not be as difficult to locate as if the crossover were lower. My subs are located directly behind my mains so this is not a problem.

 

[BrianZ]

Be aware too that with the sub crossover at 100Hz, if the sub is located relatively far from your mains, the bass might not be as difficult to locate as if the crossover were lower. My subs are located directly behind my mains so this is not a problem.

Ah, ok. Did not realize that. I'll keep it in mind. Thanks.

 

[Flint]

My two cents...

If you want to accomplish a perfectly tuned system, either by measuring and testing yourself or using the auto-EQ tools built into your receiver/preamp, then futzing with the subwoofer's volume control will knock it out of the measured and calibrated ideal. Most subwoofer volume controls I've seen are small and difficult to restore to the exact setting used prior to adjusting (this is one practical reason volume controls on receivers tend to be large - other than mere cosmetics). You could calibrate the system, put a mark on the sub's volume control, and try to put it back when you want to restore the ideal.

Of course, none of my bantering above matters if perfect calibration isn't the goal, which is fine. Not everyone wants to mess with complex process of achieving perfection and many actually don't like the way absolute calibration sounds. I just wanted to put that out there as a caveat, not as a deal breaker.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Of course, none of my bantering above matters if perfect calibration isn't the goal, which is fine.

When movies are mixed, its all subjective anyway, and the persons calling the shots are usually not terribly qualified or interested in ultimate sound quality according to the readings on some meters. Sure, the head mixing engineer takes an 85dB reading to check levels at the start of the day to make sure it corresponds to -18dB (sometimes -20bB) on the console meters, but that's it. Its what feels right, which considering everyone's home theater is nowhere comparable to the dubbing stage in size or acoustics (not to mention the speakers are totally different), anything is valid. There is no such thing as perfect when one is talking about something which is created completely on a subjective basis and its really a mistake to assume that there is.

And yes, the music recording industry is even less standardized!