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Amp -- what's it take

TKoP

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if anyone has this kind of technical know how, but I'm just curious about what is involved with making a a "good" amp. What's going to separate an Emotiva from a Parasound from a Pivetta Opera One.

I'm mostly curious as to how much is design vs. quality of parts vs. synergy (if there is such a thing) vs. ???
 
One of my most hated companies, Germany's Behringer, has made their fortunes by copying other's designs (most notably Mackie), including the names (Onyx becomes Zenix, etc) but using bottom-drawer parts and construction.
I don't have a feel for how the sound compared, but having gone Zero for Four, I can unequivocally state that the reliability goes into the toilet pretty damn quick.
I know there are some on this forum who've had good luck with Behringer, maybe they've changed in the past few years (it's been 15+ since I last worked with the garbage). I don't know.
 
Making a really good sounding amplifier is actually not that difficult for a good engineer as the best designed have been commonly known for decades and components are better and cheaper than every before.

Why we don't see tons of great amps out there is that there are several aspects to manufacturing electronics which have less to do with performance than with good business practices. For instance, ensuring any design can be manufactured consistently - with similar performance and reliability - for the sales life of the product is a complex and time consuming task. You have to create a good supply chain which makes certain all the parts are available for 3 to 5 years (or longer) that you manufacture the product. You have to also find a good manufacturer which can do good work consistently at the right price, etc. All of these things have to be balanced with the price you want to sell the amp for. Then there's all the aspects of the need to have repair parts in stock - too much and you are wasting money, too little and customers will get angry with you.

It isn't easy to be a good manufacturer. This is why you find what appears to be incredible deals on amazing gear on the web and wonder why those companies don't rule the industry. Well, they are making decisions which are not the same as someone like Parasound. Some will design and produce a fixed production run of an amp - meaning, they have a Chinese manufacturer make 10,000 units and put them in a warehouse - then break down the manufacturing floor so it can used for something else. Once the supply is sold out, that's it. If it is a wildly successful amp, customers get frustrated because they cannot buy them once they are out of stock. And, to start over a new manufacturing process for an amp isn't easy, so it makes more sense to design a new amp and make it. Then you run into quality and consistency issues. 80% of the amps can work perfectly for years, but if 20% fail too early or don't perform as expected, then you lose customers and have reputation issues.

While I have no definitively knowledge of Emotiva, I get the impression they are in the latter category of gear makers. Behringer is different. They are big enough they can continue manufacturing their stuff until obsolete or there is no demand. They also borrow manufacturing tricks from other companies who invent new things. They get more trash from being copycats than from being crappy gear.
 
Flint said:
They get more trash from being copycats than from being crappy gear.

Zero for Four, Sir. I bought a six-channel line mixer as a keyboard mixer, it lasted for three weeks of rehearsal and never saw a stage. My next band bought a "sonic maximizer", it was dead out of the box. They brought it back for an exchange unit; again DOA.
My last band bought a self-adjusting graphic EQ/feedback destroyer (against my protests). It worked great for a couple months, then the graphic EQ side died.
Zero for Four. My own personal experience. Crappy Gear. :handgestures-thumbdown:
 
That sucks, but it is not a common problem with Behringer. I have purchased about a dozen of their products and all of them are still working perfectly today.
 
My Behringer experience was 1 for 3. I bought 2 active x-over and 1 Eq. 1 x-over started to malfunction 4 months later and the other x-over in about a year. Eq worked but I sold it to someone a few months after the purchase so I didn't get to use it for long. Having said that, one of the aspects of good electronics is the reliability.
 
When I was shopping for mixers and such a while back, the folks on the pro sound forum I was using for advice were pretty unanimously in agreement that one should stay away from Behringer.
 
:twocents-mytwocents:

The design of the amplifier must take into account the follow:

Design Objectives

Marketing/Sales Objedtives

Voice of the Customer

Price Point vs. Annual Qty

Component Specifications and Tolerances

DFM (Design for Manufacturability) which takes into account volume (parts per quarter; parts per year)

Anticipated Yield

Supplier Selection

CTQ's (Critical to Quality)

Control on Inductive and Magnetic component control

Amortization of Design and Verification Testing costs, along with extensive qualification activities with Critical Custom Component Suppliers

Supplier Management

This does not necessarily result in BETTER sounding amplifiers, but will relate highly to a better quality amplifier.

Once again, I hate typed words and there is much more to add, but these are some of the reasons for some of the higher cost amplifiers.
 
I certainly understand all the business specific issues -- but wasn't sure about the technicalities of the actual design. Which sounds like it's not THAT hard. Not something a lay person could do, but it's not crazy hard.

I wish they still made those amp kits -- I know there are several DIY options out there, but from what I've seen, they're still fairly expensive. But, that's another topic...
 
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