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HFR 3D for the second Hobbit movie opening in 812 theaters

TitaniumTroy

Well-Known Member
Last year I was looking forward to seeing the first Hobbit movie in HFR (48 Frames Per Second), I didn't realize you needed to go a specific type HFR projector/theatre. I saw it in IMAX 3D and RealD 3D and thought it still has a lot of motion blur. So seeing the wider release of this technology this time, I hope to correct my original error. Also, Peter Jackson digitally altered some of the colors this time, so as not to look too much like HD video.

http://variety.com/2013/film/news/peter ... 200941962/
 
Re: HFR 3D for the second Hobbit movie opening in 812 theate

Saw The Hobbit last year in HFR 3D and found it to be extremely off putting. And I'm a fan of 3d
 
Re: HFR 3D for the second Hobbit movie opening in 812 theate

Hi Chris, thanks for the input. Can you explain a little more about what you disliked about it?

Here is an interview with Peter Jackson about the technology, also according to the FAQ section . Glasses used for standard 3D presentations can be used with HFR 3D. Which means I should be able to wear my aftermarket passive Polaroid 3D glasses, which are more wrap around and fit better.

http://www.thehobbit.com/hfr3d/qa.html
 
Re: HFR 3D for the second Hobbit movie opening in 812 theate

It was hard to explain, there was just something very artificial about any motion happening on the screen. Especially when people were moving in low-lit environments. And when I use the word "artificial" it's not in the same sense that 3d creates an artificial depth of field. It was almost like watching one of those videos taken from a traffic or rooftop camera of an intersection where you get to watch the entire days activities in less than 3 minutes. Of course the movie does not playback that fast, but that's what I likened it to.... :twocents-mytwocents:
 
Re: HFR 3D for the second Hobbit movie opening in 812 theate

After reading that interview, maybe it's just me. Maybe for me, I'm like some of those people that see the rainbow effect on certain dlp projectors, while many do not. Certainly, after reading the interview, I feel like I'd be in the minority of those who find something "off" about HFR...
 
Re: HFR 3D for the second Hobbit movie opening in 812 theate

I react with extreme disgust any time I see a TV that's been set up with all of its special effects on full stun, namely high frame rates and motion interpolation etc. I find them to be very visually unappealing. They suck the life out of the original material and imbue an artificiality that I can't stand. Ironically to make it look more real or lifelike.

I prefer film-based material to be shown at 24fps. I'm ok with video being bumped from 30fps to 60 fps. But once it gets to 120fps and beyond I can't stand it. Throw in motion interpolation and I'm outa there.

I have not seen the Hobbit (in a commercial theatre, nor off Blu-ray), so I don't know if I'd react the same way to film originally shot at 48fps, but from what I've read, I believe that those who did not like it are having the reaction that I would expect.

Speaking of the Blu-ray, does anyone know for sure which frame rate is used? I've looked at several online scans of the cover/back and only see 1080p (which I know says nothing about frame rate). I assume it's 24fps.

Jeff

ps. Again, while I've not seen it in theatres, I'm thinking that perhaps 3D HFR might be tolerable since each eye would still only be seeing 24fps. Thoughts?
 
Re: HFR 3D for the second Hobbit movie opening in 812 theate

Good question Jeff, so I looked it up. Hope this helps,

BTW,I recently watched the Hobbit on Bluray not the extended version though, on my plasma TV. I can't seem to find a rental extended version. Anyway I thought the motion blur was definitely less than at the theatre I think the scene in the beginning ,where they descend into the dwarves cave with gold spinning all around you, and where the Ork's chase the Dwarves on the open landscape. Were two good scenes to check for motion blur.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2403746,00.asp


High-definition (1080-line) television is also interlaced—hence the 1080i designation. But 1080p high-definition movies are progressively drawn line after line—they're not interlaced. In fact, Blu-ray actually displays at 30 fps regardless of the source material. Using a method called 2:3 pulldown, it distributes the frames to display 24 fps film footage properly at 30 fps.

You may have also heard of the "soap opera" effect, which occurs with some recent high-definition television sets that feature 120Hz or 240Hz modes, instead of just the usual 60Hz. (The frame rate is usually expressed as "Hz" with progressive scan monitors; hence, 60Hz instead of 60 fps). The frame rate of the source material is independent of the refresh rate of the TV. Instead, what's happening here is that the TV, using its own software, is interpolating what would have been in the original source material, had there been extra frames, and adds them on its own for a smoother effect. The problem is that it also looks somewhat unnatural, or dreamy, and more like an older live TV camera than proper film footage. I personally don't like it. I turn this mode off on my own 120Hz set, and while I've seen countless 240Hz HDTVs, I have yet to warm up to the effect.
 
Re: HFR 3D for the second Hobbit movie opening in 812 theate

I'm personally not a big fan of farm interpolation on TVs either but the more I think about I wonder if it's because I'm so used to seeing "normal" frame rates. If I had and used an high frame rate set Perhaps over time I'd come to think of lower farm rates as soft and less life like.
 
Re: HFR 3D for the second Hobbit movie opening in 812 theate

I once saw a demo in some corporate offices in San Francisco where the company I was visiting was working on their own standard for high frame rate video and 3D video to sell to the movie industry. What they did was put Prototype References monitors next to a window to the street and made an empty TV frame & screen to place over the window which had been thoroughly cleaned. They then put two cameras with matching perspective lenses outside the building aimed in the same direction as the window was looking. The person seeing the demo would stand on a point and look at both screens and the through the pretend screen over the window and try to pick the real window versus the two screens. One screen was showing traditional 2K 24fps theater video and the other was showing 4K 48fps video. They could both be switched to this company's proprietary active lens 3D very easily.

Anyway, when comparing the 2K 24fps to the 4K 48fps, there was no question the higher resolution and frame rate video was superior and it looked more like the window view. Adding 3D, the higher frame rate made a huge difference. Clearly, if realism is the goal of the movie director, higher frame rates and resolutions are superior as long as the color space and gamut are sufficient.



That said, Peter Jackson, and most modern movie directors, especially those making scifi and fantasy movies, alter the color space to invoke the lighting and color emotions of the movie. You can see it in all of the Lord of the Ring and Hobbit movies - how one region of Middle Earth is mostly brown, even the green leaves look more brown than green, and so on. They also reduce the color space to get a more intense visual experience, like in "Brother, where art thou" where they removed all the green from the video to give the landscape a really sparse and dry feel. Doing this stuff has an impact on how "real" it is capable of looking. In "300" I don't think there was a single frame where at least 75% of the color hadn't been removed from the video to give it that look of being a drawn or mental memory of the event.

My point - I don't think it is fair for us to judge the movies solely on the technology used to present it. We can go to one Real-D movie and not like the effect and avoid Real-D ever again, but the director could be 100% responsible for the effect you saw instead of the Real-D Technology. Directors are trying to trick you into certain emotions with color, sharpness (or fuzziness) and so on which is nowhere close to real.

This is why, by the way, I have constantly been going on and on about wanting to see a costume drama, like Pride and Prejudice or Doctor Zhivago or Out of Africa, filmed with all this super high end gear and 3D tech so we can see how it really works with realistic looking scenes of gorgeous places.
 
Re: HFR 3D for the second Hobbit movie opening in 812 theate

I wish I could have The Dark Knight Rises in HFR, while not 3D I think Christopher Nolan goes for a more realistic look. Here is hoping he does a HFR 3D movie in the future.
 
Re: HFR 3D for the second Hobbit movie opening in 812 theate

^ I think it'll be some time, if ever, before Chris Nolan film anything in 3D.
 
Re: HFR 3D for the second Hobbit movie opening in 812 theate

TitaniumTroy said:
Good question Jeff, so I looked it up. Hope this helps,

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2403746,00.asp


High-definition (1080-line) television is also interlaced—hence the 1080i designation. But 1080p high-definition movies are progressively drawn line after line—they're not interlaced. In fact, Blu-ray actually displays at 30 fps regardless of the source material. Using a method called 2:3 pulldown, it distributes the frames to display 24 fps film footage properly at 30 fps.


Thanks Troy.

However, I don't take the above quote, pulled from the referenced article, as fact. My Sharp Aquos LCD recognizes and displays 24Hz material at 24Hz from many Blu-ray movie discs.

Jeff
 
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