New receiver provokes new question about downmix to stereo
- Thread starter BrianZ
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Re: New receiver provokes new question about downmix to ster
As we all know, the room plays a major role in our systems perform to our ears. In our homes sound comes from all around us as well, just like at a grand concert hall where well tuned architectural and acoustic elements reflect sound and make reverb, in our homes the room reflects sound and makes a different type of reverb. If our listening rooms are well treated and tuned, they can add a pleasing ambience to the music, as well, and enhance the natural reverb captured in the recordings.
That said, I get what you are saying. If you really want to capture the sound of a live Pink Floyd show, you need ear-shattering SPLs, screaming stoners, and people bumping into you and spilling their drinks on you. About every 5 to 10 minutes, blasts of pot or tobacco smoke needs to fill your lungs, and the strong stench of vomit needs to be experienced a couple of times. Ideally, the sound will be way too bass heavy and the drums will be too loud. Recreating all those things would be capturing a live concert in your home.
mcad64 said:
As we all know, the room plays a major role in our systems perform to our ears. In our homes sound comes from all around us as well, just like at a grand concert hall where well tuned architectural and acoustic elements reflect sound and make reverb, in our homes the room reflects sound and makes a different type of reverb. If our listening rooms are well treated and tuned, they can add a pleasing ambience to the music, as well, and enhance the natural reverb captured in the recordings.
That said, I get what you are saying. If you really want to capture the sound of a live Pink Floyd show, you need ear-shattering SPLs, screaming stoners, and people bumping into you and spilling their drinks on you. About every 5 to 10 minutes, blasts of pot or tobacco smoke needs to fill your lungs, and the strong stench of vomit needs to be experienced a couple of times. Ideally, the sound will be way too bass heavy and the drums will be too loud. Recreating all those things would be capturing a live concert in your home.
Re: New receiver provokes new question about downmix to ster
Flint is correct, our living/listening rooms do set up their own "reverb" field, but due to their size there's not a big difference to our ears from a "direct" sound (a snare crack coming out of the right front speaker) and its "reverb" (the initial reflection off the back and the subsequent reflections off everything else).
Clap your hands, once, in your living room, and listen carefully.
Now, do it in your garage, or unfinished basement.
Now, do it in your local high school gym or auditorium.
Now, in a local cathedral or church before services begin.
Finally, try it in the Grand Canyon.
These different sounds/decays are what tells our ears/brains "where" we are; a well-mixed 5.1 disk WILL simulate this.
EDIT: my reference to Pink Floyd wasn't in reference to the volume/inconvenience of a live concert, but rather the footsteps running from right to left, the heartbeat that comes from all sides, the screaming guy in the back left, the plane flying overhead, etc. A "vomit-plex" has its possibilities, however. :mrgreen:
Flint is correct, our living/listening rooms do set up their own "reverb" field, but due to their size there's not a big difference to our ears from a "direct" sound (a snare crack coming out of the right front speaker) and its "reverb" (the initial reflection off the back and the subsequent reflections off everything else).
Clap your hands, once, in your living room, and listen carefully.
Now, do it in your garage, or unfinished basement.
Now, do it in your local high school gym or auditorium.
Now, in a local cathedral or church before services begin.
Finally, try it in the Grand Canyon.
These different sounds/decays are what tells our ears/brains "where" we are; a well-mixed 5.1 disk WILL simulate this.
EDIT: my reference to Pink Floyd wasn't in reference to the volume/inconvenience of a live concert, but rather the footsteps running from right to left, the heartbeat that comes from all sides, the screaming guy in the back left, the plane flying overhead, etc. A "vomit-plex" has its possibilities, however. :mrgreen:
Re: New receiver provokes new question about downmix to ster
I was just making a joke about the idea that recreating the live experience at home could be about more than just sound, reverb, and effects.
Our brains are both brilliantly powerful and easily tricked. When ambient information is added to or captured on a recording, any of us who has ever been to a concert in a proper concert hall and experience room reverb will interpret that ambience as coming from all around us. If the stereo soundstage in front of us is convincing - as our strongest sensitivity to sound directionality is primarily from the front and poor from the rear - our brains will instinctively apply some or all of the ambient audio (the reverb and echoes, even crowd noises) to things coming from beside and behind us.
That isn't to say that a proper surround sound system isn't worth the effort, it is to say that surround sound isn't completely necessary to experience 3D audio with a really well setup stereo system.
We had this argument back in the day on the old forum - I argued that spending more on a killer stereo rig would be more enjoyable and impressive than spending the same dollars on a full surround system. That was back when dropping fomr than a grand on speakers was considered crazy - so I said spend whatever you would on a 5 channel speaker setup in just the front left and right speakers, set them up properly, do some things about room acoustics, and sit in the sweet spot and discover how completely amazing stereo could be without the added channels. I still feel that way.
Today we are all older and have more disposable income, so arguing to spend all your money on stereo isn't as important as most of us have really darn good speakers all around the room since we are willing to drop some serious money on speakers. But the principle still applies. Surround isn't completely necessary to really friggin' enjoy some killer recordings, TV shows, concert videos, and movies.
I was just making a joke about the idea that recreating the live experience at home could be about more than just sound, reverb, and effects.
Our brains are both brilliantly powerful and easily tricked. When ambient information is added to or captured on a recording, any of us who has ever been to a concert in a proper concert hall and experience room reverb will interpret that ambience as coming from all around us. If the stereo soundstage in front of us is convincing - as our strongest sensitivity to sound directionality is primarily from the front and poor from the rear - our brains will instinctively apply some or all of the ambient audio (the reverb and echoes, even crowd noises) to things coming from beside and behind us.
That isn't to say that a proper surround sound system isn't worth the effort, it is to say that surround sound isn't completely necessary to experience 3D audio with a really well setup stereo system.
We had this argument back in the day on the old forum - I argued that spending more on a killer stereo rig would be more enjoyable and impressive than spending the same dollars on a full surround system. That was back when dropping fomr than a grand on speakers was considered crazy - so I said spend whatever you would on a 5 channel speaker setup in just the front left and right speakers, set them up properly, do some things about room acoustics, and sit in the sweet spot and discover how completely amazing stereo could be without the added channels. I still feel that way.
Today we are all older and have more disposable income, so arguing to spend all your money on stereo isn't as important as most of us have really darn good speakers all around the room since we are willing to drop some serious money on speakers. But the principle still applies. Surround isn't completely necessary to really friggin' enjoy some killer recordings, TV shows, concert videos, and movies.