Subwoofer Integration (Bass Mgt) for Digital Active Speakers

[team_tsp]

Hey everyone, for the past couple years I've been sort of shopping for a new pair of speakers. I'm trying to get serious about it now, and this recent Stereophile review on the Dynaudio 200 XD caught my eye:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/...-loudspeaker-measurements#e6DAbJwUuwUSVDLg.97

The interesting thing is these are active speakers that can accept a digital input.

Since I'm a fan of using a subwoofer, I began to think about how to take advantage of maintaining a digital chain, and also doing bass management in the digital domain to incorporate a subwoofer. Would something like this work?


I'm not dead set on getting these Dynaudio XD speakers, but I'm wondering if it's an option to consider.

1. Is the above potentially cool, or foolish? Likewise, would the digital processing done by the MiniDSP (or similar product) affect sound quality?
2. The other issue is volume control for both the speakers and subwoofer, thoughts on this?

 

[Botch]

This brings up a more general, interesting question, that I've been sorta thinking about since upgrading my system 6 or 7 years ago.
What's better:
a. A really exquisite DAC up front (say, in your source component or immediately after) that then sends analog signals to your receiver, TV, and speakers, or
b. Keeping the signal flow digital as long as possible, and using (possibly inferior) DAC converters in a speaker.
I don't know.

This first gave me something to think about because both my Yamaha receiver, and my Oppo disk player, had supposedly good DACs, did I want to send, say, a SACD digital stream to my receiver, or analog? (I chose the former, but never did a side-by-side test).

 

[Flint]

This isn't sexy, but DACs have reached the point where the lowest end DACs are as good as nearly all high end DACs. I would argue that if the rated DAC performance from 1 to 100, basic mainstream implementations would be 96 and the highest end stand alone versions would be 98 to 99. Basically, I am saying that worrying about a DAC is pretty close to pointless by this time.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I would say the analog circuitry after the DAC is more likely to have a sonic signature due to more ways it can be implemented.

One observation though - the insides of a speaker cabinet is pretty hostile to electronics. I would prefer to have this external somewhere.

 

[team_tsp]

I would say the analog circuitry after the DAC is more likely to have a sonic signature due to more ways it can be implemented.

One observation though - the insides of a speaker cabinet is pretty hostile to electronics. I would prefer to have this external somewhere.

Generally aren't active speakers viewed favorably since the amp and speaker are designed in conjunction with each other? Or is your point more about where the electronics are located?

And I agree that analog circuitry after the DAC is more likely to affect the sound, so I was curious if there were benefits in keeping the signal in the digital domain for as long as possible throughout the chain?

Thanks in advance!

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Generally aren't active speakers viewed favorably since the amp and speaker are designed in conjunction with each other? Or is your point more about where the electronics are located?

And I agree that analog circuitry after the DAC is more likely to affect the sound, so I was curious if there were benefits in keeping the signal in the digital domain for as long as possible throughout the chain?

Thanks in advance!

Active speakers are viewed favorably by people who view them favorably, and not so much by people who don't, and a speaker manufacturer is not necessarily good at amplifier design and vice versa. Personally, if you are a typical listener I would purchase a conventional passive crossover speaker since the crossover is, obviously, also designed specifically for that speaker. Like I mentioned before, the insides of a speaker is a hostile environment for electronics, and many compromises must be made to stuff a good amplifier into a speaker box (assuming it is inside the speaker box). Heat management is an obvious example, and even digital amplifiers generate heat (I have worked on the design of several in the last few years); the heatsink being hung on the back of the speaker cabinet is a compromise. There are certain instances where a powered speaker makes sense such as monitors for studio use (the Mackie models were a particular favorite of mine).

There IS an obvious and audible advantage to going the route to true bi-and tri-amplification (there is an excellent tutorial in the speaker section of this forum), but going this route is getting into the territory of DIY. Several people here have done this (including myself) and this provides an obvious (verses marketing hype generated) advantage since each amplifier can be chosen specifically for the speaker driver which it will drive, for instance a stiff solid state amp for the woofer and a sweet sounding vacuum tube amp for the midrange/tweeter. In such a system there is nothing at all except the speaker wire between the amplifier output and the driver's terminals, and the external active crossover can be specifically designed for the entire system.

There is no intrinsic value to keeping the signal in the digital domain for as long as possible as long as the electronics after the digital to analog conversion are of good quality. Our ears are obviously quite analog and this is unlikely to change! Its even advantageous to use the "voicing" of the analog electronics to tune the sound to your liking, such as using a tube amplifier to achieve a particular sound quality; this just isn't possible with an "active" speaker with the amps built-in. In such a case you get what they want you to have which is fine as long as you want what they're giving you.

It all boils down to how interactive you want to be with building the system. If you simply want a plug-and-play solution there are ways to do that, and there are avenues to constructing a system which is more specific to your listening needs and desires. They're all valid.

 

[team_tsp]

Active speakers are viewed favorably by people who view them favorably, and not so much by people who don't, and a speaker manufacturer is not necessarily good at amplifier design and vice versa. Personally, if you are a typical listener I would purchase a conventional passive crossover speaker since the crossover is, obviously, also designed specifically for that speaker. Like I mentioned before, the insides of a speaker is a hostile environment for electronics, and many compromises must be made to stuff a good amplifier into a speaker box (assuming it is inside the speaker box). Heat management is an obvious example, and even digital amplifiers generate heat (I have worked on the design of several in the last few years); the heatsink being hung on the back of the speaker cabinet is a compromise. There are certain instances where a powered speaker makes sense such as monitors for studio use (the Mackie models were a particular favorite of mine).

There IS an obvious and audible advantage to going the route to true bi-and tri-amplification (there is an excellent tutorial in the speaker section of this forum), but going this route is getting into the territory of DIY. Several people here have done this (including myself) and this provides an obvious (verses marketing hype generated) advantage since each amplifier can be chosen specifically for the speaker driver which it will drive, for instance a stiff solid state amp for the woofer and a sweet sounding vacuum tube amp for the midrange/tweeter. In such a system there is nothing at all except the speaker wire between the amplifier output and the driver's terminals, and the external active crossover can be specifically designed for the entire system.

There is no intrinsic value to keeping the signal in the digital domain for as long as possible as long as the electronics after the digital to analog conversion are of good quality. Our ears are obviously quite analog and this is unlikely to change! Its even advantageous to use the "voicing" of the analog electronics to tune the sound to your liking, such as using a tube amplifier to achieve a particular sound quality; this just isn't possible with an "active" speaker with the amps built-in. In such a case you get what they want you to have which is fine as long as you want what they're giving you.

It all boils down to how interactive you want to be with building the system. If you simply want a plug-and-play solution there are ways to do that, and there are avenues to constructing a system which is more specific to your listening needs and desires. They're all valid.

Thanks @rammisframmis for the well thought out reply, it definitely provides good insight!