Used Pair of Parasound Halo JC 1's - Pipe Dream?

[team_tsp]

I rarely look at craigslist, but on a whim I decided to check out the electronics section and saw this:
https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ele/5785371123.html

Currently I have a modest system (Paradigm Studio v3 with a Denon receiver), but for the past couple years I've been thinking about eventually putting together a new, much higher end system. I was thinking maybe I'll get the Parasound Halo Integrated for my pre/pro/amp needs one day when I'm ready.

I wholeheartedly agree with the philosophy on this forum that electronics/amplifiers have a very small impact compared to speakers and room acoustics. If I were to even get the Halo Integrated one day, I would consider that a huge splurge.

While I am not seriously interested in this ad for the JC 1's, it is rare/unusual and I figured it might lead to some interesting conversation. Should I put some consideration into these, what are your thoughts?

Pros:

• Currently I can't find used JC 1's posted anywhere else (ebay, audiogon, etc.) so it's hard to compare prices, but this seems like a pretty good price for the pair. The price may even be negotiable, who knows?
• Within driving distance for me, what are the odds!?
  
• Great Parasound product.
• Could this be one of those "once in a lifetime" opportunities? (This is the biggest reason for this post)

Cons:

• I'm still not sure what speakers I want next. I'm thinking possibly something along the lines of Dynaudio C1's (would still need to audition those and continue researching in general).
• I am a little intrigued with active speakers, but haven't done much research. With this route, separate amps would be extraneous.
• It's posted on craigslist, so it could be a scam, etc.
• They're 7 years old and have been in storage for 4 years according to the ad (this could be good or bad?)
  
• I would still need to get a separate pre/pro or preamp, adding to the already high costs.
  
• Is way overkill for any speakers I would ever realistically purchase. Many receivers/pre/pro/amps would likely work for me for a fraction of the price.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Just buy one of the ATI branded amplifiers. They're quite good, I hear.

 

[team_tsp]

I've heard about ATI amps but don't know much about them, which amps of theirs would you suggest I research?

Also, if I were to get a pre/pro primarily for 2.1 music playback, what are some good options? Bass management seems to be a pretty rare feature in stereo preamps

I've looked a bit at AV receivers with pre-outs, but those kind of get pricey nowadays. And the dedicated pre/pros from Onkyo and Yamaha are quite pricey too.

I know Outlaw makes a pre/pro (model 975) that's ~$550, which seems pretty appealing.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I've heard about ATI amps but don't know much about them, which amps of theirs would you suggest I research?

ATI makes amplifiers both under its own name and is an under-the-radar OEM for a lot of other high end companies (some really, really high end ones as a matter of fact). Outlaw is also made by ATI, as is Theta, with BGW in the professional cinema space. I would really choose one which has the channel configuration you want, in a price range you want. They're all pretty much built like tanks (ask my back about that) and you can't go wrong with any of them. The 6000 series is the newest of the multi-channel lines. Their original SAE brand was recently re-introduced with a pricey two channel and a multi-channel (the two channel was featured in Stereophile last month).

The amps are made by hand in Los Angeles, CA if that matters to you.

As far as preamps, I can't really address that as I'm only intimately familiar with the Theta ones.

 

[Razz]

Those Parasound's are super nice, but for the money, I would invest in new speakers first.
Then, if money matters, I would look at the ATI brand as well.. I'm a long time ATI owner (x2 now), still own both and love them.
If you want a "trial" pre-pro, PM me, I have an Onkyo that I will make a sweet deal on if you are interested.
http://www.theaudioannex.com/forum/threads/fs-onkyo-pr-sc886-pre-pro.9957/

 

[Flint]

The Parasound preamp has a subwoofer output with a basic analog (dial) crossover setup. I have the preamp and it is VERY good, but I have not tried using it in 2.1 mode.

 

[team_tsp]

@rammisframmis - Yea, that SAE 2HP-D looks like a beast, maybe if I win the lottery some day! I heard about the amp when it was introduced, so I enjoyed reading that article in Stereophile, but I was surprised by the inconsistent measurements they had in their sample's left channel. Hopefully it was due to shipping damages, etc. They author stated he is waiting for another sample, so I hope they update the article with new measurements.

@Razz - thanks, I'll keep that in mind! Those Onkyo pre/pros are definitely feature-rich, I don't know if a unit like that would be overkill for a 2.1 system, but I'll read up more on them.

@Flint - I almost forgot about the Parasound 2100 which is what you're referring to, right? I always kind of wondered if the NewClassic line performed well. I kind of wish it had a built in DAC, but it sounds like you're happy with the quality of the 2100 preamp? Do you have any thoughts/experience on the amps in that series as well? e.g. the 2125 or 2250?

 

[Flint]

Yeah. I like the preamp. Works really well and sounds good. I used an external dac in my apartment with it.

Never used those amplifiers.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

@rammisframmis - Yea, that SAE 2HP-D looks like a beast, maybe if I win the lottery some day! I heard about the amp when it was introduced, so I enjoyed reading that article in Stereophile, but I was surprised by the inconsistent measurements they had in their sample's left channel. Hopefully it was due to shipping damages, etc. They author stated he is waiting for another sample, so I hope they update the article with new measurements.

When the amp came back from the reviewer an investigation found that the bias was messed up on the channel of the amp which measured worse, due to a component defect, so it is no surprise that the distortion was higher. The amp was a show unit, and it had been around the block a few times. I don't know if the measurements will be updated or not. The amp has specs which would be outstanding for a preamp, let alone an amp which can put out 800 watts per channel.

 

[Deleted member 133]

When the amp came back from the reviewer an investigation found that the bias was messed up on the channel of the amp which measured worse, due to a component defect, so it is no surprise that the distortion was higher. The amp was a show unit, and it had been around the block a few times. I don't know if the measurements will be updated or not. The amp has specs which would be outstanding for a preamp, let alone an amp which can put out 800 watts per channel.

Putting on my ex-marketers hat, to whom (or what) is such a beast targeted?

I've always considered (perhaps incorrectly) a stereo amp of 200 watts per channel to be the sweet spot, insofar as it probably represents the point where the power and price points intersect at an optimum place for the consumer: reasonable price and the ability to drive essentially any speaker to sufficiently loud (and clean) levels.

Does the SAE fill a niche where that amount of power is needed to drive a small number of high quality but very inefficient speakers? Where the much higher price is justified - especially relative to the cost of the speakers? For much larger rooms?

Or is it the flagship that will draw them into the showroom and have them leave with a "lesser" sibling?

Jeff

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Putting on my ex-marketers hat, to whom (or what) is such a beast targeted?

I've always considered (perhaps incorrectly) a stereo amp of 200 watts per channel to be the sweet spot, insofar as it probably represents the point where the power and price points intersect at an optimum place for the consumer: reasonable price and the ability to drive essentially any speaker to sufficiently loud (and clean) levels.

Does the SAE fill a niche where that amount of power is needed to drive a small number of high quality but very inefficient speakers? Where the much higher price is justified - especially relative to the cost of the speakers? For much larger rooms?

Or is it the flagship that will draw them into the showroom and have them leave with a "lesser" sibling?

Jeff

The SAE is mostly for very inefficient speakers, but also is a "statement" product where the challenge was to get the lowest distortion and noise possible (lower than the competition). I designed all of the circuit boards within the amp, and spent a lot of time and effort to make sure the traces which carry any amount of current (especially in the input/driver stages which are very current sensitive) were exactly the same length and symmetrical so that perfect balance between the halves of each channel were assured. Also, I used 4-layer power-plane type layout to make sure that no cross-currents were possible, again to reduce noise and distortion and achieve perfect balance. In the end, it worked . Those big meters on the front were also my project.

That said, as you know, for my personal very efficient horn-based system, I don't give a shit about balanced amplifiers or push-pull amplifiers for that matter - anything more than 5 watts is wasted!

 

[team_tsp]

The SAE is mostly for very inefficient speakers, but also is a "statement" product where the challenge was to get the lowest distortion and noise possible (lower than the competition). I designed all of the circuit boards within the amp, and spent a lot of time and effort to make sure the traces which carry any amount of current (especially in the input/driver stages which are very current sensitive) were exactly the same length and symmetrical so that perfect balance between the halves of each channel were assured. Also, I used 4-layer power-plane type layout to make sure that no cross-currents were possible, again to reduce noise and distortion and achieve perfect balance. In the end, it worked . Those big meters on the front were also my project.

That said, as you know, for my personal very efficient horn-based system, I don't give a shit about balanced amplifiers or push-pull amplifiers for that matter - anything more than 5 watts is wasted!

That's interesting insight, and I think the digital display looks awesome (at least judging from pictures).

And I hope Stereophile does another set of measurements with another unit, seems like the product really deserves a fair assessment.

Now I just have to figure out a way to win the lottery to buy one of these lol...

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

That's interesting insight, and I think the digital display looks awesome (at least judging from pictures).

And I hope Stereophile does another set of measurements with another unit, seems like the product really deserves a fair assessment.

Now I just have to figure out a way to win the lottery to buy one of these lol...

I wouldn't hold my breath for another set of measurements. Essentially, both channels measure in the lab a bit better than the better channel on the review sample. The other ATI amps are still extremely good spec-wise, just lower power than the SAE (300 watts rated on the 6000).

 

[team_tsp]

I wouldn't hold my breath for another set of measurements. Essentially, both channels measure in the lab a bit better than the better channel on the review sample. The other ATI amps are still extremely good spec-wise, just lower power than the SAE (300 watts rated on the 6000).

I read up a bit on the different series of ATI amps, and also noticed that Monoprice has a series of amps called the Monolith which appear to be based on ATI designs:
http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=109&cp_id=10919&cs_id=1091903&p_id=15595&seq=1&format=2

Are you by chance at liberty to discuss if the Monolith is based on the AT1800 series? (I doubt it's based on the AT4000 or AT6000 series, but I'm just guessing.) Generally how do you feel about the price/performance of the Monoprice amps?

Or if you're bound by NDAs of sorts and can't discuss, that's totally understandable

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I read up a bit on the different series of ATI amps, and also noticed that Monoprice has a series of amps called the Monolith which appear to be based on ATI designs:
http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=109&cp_id=10919&cs_id=1091903&p_id=15595&seq=1&format=2

Are you by chance at liberty to discuss if the Monolith is based on the AT1800 series? (I doubt it's based on the AT4000 or AT6000 series, but I'm just guessing.) Generally how do you feel about the price/performance of the Monoprice amps?

Or if you're bound by NDAs of sorts and can't discuss, that's totally understandable

Yes, these are ATI amps.