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3-D Audio: Filter cancels stereo crosstalk

Discussion in 'Acoustics' started by TitaniumTroy, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. TitaniumTroy

    TitaniumTroy Well-Known Member

    Get this, an audiophile geek at Princeton has developed a type of filter that cancels stereo crosstalk, without corrupting the sound like previous device. Bob Carver's Sonic Holography and Polk's Stereo Dimensional Array, are two concepts I am aware of that tried to deal with this . Oh and by the he's a bona fide rocket scientist, the sound clip from his video is designed to be played back on a lab top computer. So that leaves me out, anybody care to give this a lesson on their laptop and post their thoughts? Thanks.

    Also I found this kind of ironic since SoundHound was just discussing crosstalk in my thread on imaging and soundstage. Wonder if this filter will work with planer speakers? I really hope this technology is the real deal, maybe the forum gurus can give some thought as to how promising this is or is not? :handgestures-fingerscrossed:

    I would think canceling stereo crosstalk would be one of the Holy Grails of true Hi-Fidelity!. :violin:


    http://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20022 ... =mncol;txt
     
  2. Flint

    Flint "Do you know who I am?" Superstar

    I am waiting for the video to load on my notebook, but then I saw this note:

    Note: If you are using a recent Macintosh MacBook to view this video you may not be able to hear the 3D demos in this video in 3D due to a known problem in the MacBook design (related to the location of the internal "subwoofer") that creates a strong Left-Right imbalance in the audio, which could not be compensated for while creating the 3D audio for this video.


    Fortunately I am not on my MacBook Pro right now, but my Latitude also has a subwoofer - I wonder if that will hinder my performance?
     
  3. TitaniumTroy

    TitaniumTroy Well-Known Member

    Ok upon further reading on the website, I see this technology prefers highly directional speakers. A test of six speakers revealed a preference for the Gedlee Nathan. Hmmm well PaulyT should like that since he has the smaller Abby, while my Magnepans would not do well with what they are trying to acheive :x
     
  4. soundhound

    soundhound Well-Known Member

    I'll have to listen to this later when I can have access to my notebook computer, but I have a few thoughts.

    As you noted, this goal is not new. I listened to the Carver Sonic Holography in the past and found that the coloration that it introduced outweighed its usefulness. I do have to wonder who exactly is the audience for this process. Just a guess, but I would imagine that the "masses" don't care all that much to be swayed by this process, and the true audiophiles who might benefit would not want to have any type of filtering (regardless of its effectiveness) in their audio chain.

    I tend to fall into this last group. I feel that dealing with stereo crosstalk (which is mostly non-direct sound from the room) is most effectively done with good speaker setup, or by using more directional speakers (i.e. horns), and having good acoustics in the listening room.

    The experiment I outlined in my post in your other thread using a boombox will give a good idea of what the lack of crosstalk between channels can sound like. I've used that sound as a goal when setting up my speakers / room. Its not impossible to get so close to the sound of lack of crosstalk that it hardly seems necessary to introduce additional processing into the signal chain.

    Any kind of additional processing of the audio signal is going to change it: its unavoidable. That amounts to distortion of what was on the original recording. The purist in me finds that unacceptable, especially considering that the same goal can be achieved by good speaker placement and good room acoustics.

    At any rate, I'll give the link a listen when I can get to a laptop.
     
  5. yromj

    yromj Well-Known Member

    Let alone the fact that an "audiophile" isn't going to whip out a laptop to listen to music on its speakers.

    John
     
  6. Flint

    Flint "Do you know who I am?" Superstar

    Well, I was sorely disappointed in the amount of demo content in the video, but it seemed pretty cool. The real world application of using it to acoustically simulate being in a conference meeting would be extremely useful, as I attend hundreds of meetings each month on the phone and it causes headaches to try to hear everyone, especially when they are chatting to each other quietly as someone else is speaking.

    That said, I didn't find this any more impressive than the any number of other 3D audio demos I've experienced before. Most work extremely well with certain types of content, but none excel in all types. As such, I'd need to experience this new one with much more content to appreciate its effectiveness. Ultimately, his filter would have to have multiple modes, one for laptops, one for home stereo speakers, one for desktop PC speakers, one for TVs, and so on. I also imagine it will require the listener sit perfectly still, which will hinder the 3D experience and one of the many ways we located sounds is that we slightly move our heads and analyze how the directionality shifts with that slide movement, the same way a dog cocks its head. This technique completely ignores, even removes, that method of audio location.
     
  7. Botch

    Botch I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S! Superstar

    I just played it on my Air, and it sounded amazing! :scared-yipes: (Don't know if the Air has a "subwoofer" or not)

    That was fascinating, thanks for the link; I'll have to post this on my musicians' forums. :music-listening:
     
  8. TitaniumTroy

    TitaniumTroy Well-Known Member

    Ok, here is a second video with a long standing member of the NJ Audio Society, to help judge the sound. Also I notice that the speakers are placed very close together, I imagine this could cause various problems such as with deep bass perhaps?

    http://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/MediaCoverage.html

    Your welcome Botch.
     
  9. Razz

    Razz Well-Known Member

    I find this VERY interesting! Unfortunately, the application can only be used for 1 listener at a time.

    Still, very cool stuff. I hope it continues to develop.
     
  10. Flint

    Flint "Do you know who I am?" Superstar

    More than 1 listener can experience this through 1 set of speakers. They just have to lined up behind each other.

    Actually, I imagine to fully enjoy this level of clarity, listening alone is preferred anyway. Even with regular stereo or multichannel surround there is only one sweetspot where the sound is most ideal.
     
  11. Razz

    Razz Well-Known Member


    I wonder about that. It looked like the program used time to place objects around a specific spot. If that is the case then the guy lined up behind or in front of that spot will be out of time alignment.
     
  12. soundhound

    soundhound Well-Known Member

    With all your insisting on preserving the original signal from the disc, I'm surprised that you would consider this. It is after all a modification of the true signal.
     
  13. Yesfan70

    Yesfan70 I'm famous now bitches! vvvvv Famous

    I never could get the first video to play and the second video didn't sound different than anything else.


    Is there a certain version of Flash you have to have to see/hear the first video? I'll try it again on the wife's laptop later.
     
  14. Flint

    Flint "Do you know who I am?" Superstar

    I would never use this filter in my system to process music. I do think it could be extremely useful for more common everyday tasks like the example they show of conference calls or other remote access of events. I also think it could be really awsome at the recording end of the signal chain as a tool to encode placement of sounds into the recording.
     
  15. soundhound

    soundhound Well-Known Member

    Those already exist.
     
  16. Rope

    Rope Well-Known Member Famous

    Too late! I already constructed 1" thick acoustic barrier at the center of my listening area, which fits like a glove around my nose, mouth, chin and the rest of my body. Now the left ear hears only the sound from the left speaker, and the right ear accordingly. :teasing-neener:

    It's really tough watching movies in this fashion, but I'm certain I'll become accustumed to the cross-eyedness. :teasing-tease:

    Rope
     
  17. Botch

    Botch I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S! Superstar

    :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

    Silly, you need to get two 3D tv's, and add a notch in the barrier for the glasses...
     
  18. soundhound

    soundhound Well-Known Member

    I tell 'ya man, just buy yourself a boombox and stick your nose right in the middle, almost touching the case. You don't need no pansy ass DSP voodoo BS. :teasing-tease:
     
  19. Rope

    Rope Well-Known Member Famous

    Crap, I don't know why I can't think of those simple solutions. :angry-tappingfoot:

    Rope
     
  20. Razz

    Razz Well-Known Member


    HAHA! I remember doing that exact thing in high school..... listening as loud as it would go!
     

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