A phonostage

[Botch]

This past week I got a rather thick catalog from "Musicdirect", all audiophile equipment and "heavy vinyl". Was leafing through it, and found this:

Basically, a preamp for your turntable cartridge. It "...makes music come alive in a way that cannot be verbally expressed."
Only $7,495.
I'll buy two, in case one gets damaged in transit. Yay.

:angelic-green:

 

[Flint]

Actually... I bet that is one sweet sounding preamp. I would get one if I needed a phono stage.

Notice how it offers different loads and capacitance settings to match your cartridge? That's important stuff!

 

[Rope]

Excuse me while I give myself a "black box" enema.

Rope

 

[Botch]

Notice how it offers different loads and capacitance settings to match your cartridge? That's important stuff!

My 1979 Yamaha integrated amp ($400, in 1979 dollars) had that! :happy-smileygiantred:
(actually, it had variable loads, but not capacitances...)

 

[Haywood]

My Paradigm Studio speaker system, SVS PB12-Plus/2 sub, Marantz MM-9000 amplifier, Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver, Roku 3, PS3, two UPS boxes and all of my cabling cost less than that phono stage.

 

[Flint]

it is funny... When it comes to digital audio, I generally do not buy into all the gadgets and hype of audiophile nonsense. But, when it comes to the very delicate and extremely sensitive low voltage signals from a cartridge as an LP spins beneath its stylus, I believe that every little bit can make a huge and clearly audible difference.

So... while many phono stages are silly and over-priced, I actually think this one is worth the money - if you really love listening to LPs and have invested in a turntable and cartridge of substantial quality already.

I wouldn't use this phono stage with a $100 Numark turntable and a $25 Ortofon DJ needle, but if I'd already dropped a few thousand on a good turntable and $500 to $800 on a cartridge, this preamp makes perfect sense.

 

[Haywood]

I am asking this out of ignorance rather than sarcasm. Why would it make sense to drop $8k on a phone stage for a $3k turntable with a $500 cartridge?

 

[Flint]

Of course everything is relative, but the signals coming off any cartridge are delicate and every little thing you can do to improve them is of value. This is the world of diminishing returns, but the returns are still there. I chose those dollar amounts spent on a turntable of cartridge as the least you would spend before something like this starts making sense. At those expenditures one is starting to enter the land of diminishing returns. Of course, one could spend more on the cartridge or more on the turntable. I would assume one already spent plenty on a platform on which to place the turntable and other trinkets like LP washers, de-static devices, and so on.

Personally, I'd rather have a good digital recording to listen to because an LP in always, no matter what you do, inherently flawed. Many like that sound, so bully on them, but for me an ideal duplicate of what the mastering engineer heard is preferable.

 

[Randy]

"inherently flawed" why?

With all the hype from the "vinyl sounds better" crowd why is vinyl always "inherently flawed"?

I became a fan of this hobby as a kid, after my brother came home from Japan with a huge stereo system, I unfortunately was broke.

I started getting into the hobby when CD's were first becoming mainstream and I have always been primarily digital so I never really researched the whole vinyl thing a lot.

 

[Flint]

From a purely scientific point of view, LP technology is flawed. It has easily measurable and audible forms of non-linearity we pay attention to, such as:
- Limited channel separation
- Phase shift between channels
- Total Harmonic Distortion
- Noise
- Rumble
- Wow
- Flutter
- Variance from flat frequency response
- Noises and distortions from physical damage to LPs
- Performance varies from the outer grooves to the inner grooves
- Dynamic range is way below the human thresholds
- Dynamic range is much more limited in the bass frequencies than it the treble frequencies

etc.

Now... some people like those things, the subtle rumble from the system after the needle touches down on the LP before the music starts. That moment before the music where anticipation builds as you know it is coming, there's no stopping it now that the rumble of the spinning LP can be heard... Ah...

Every time you play an LP is wears and will never sound the same again. It take a dozen or a hundred playings before the wear is audible, but it will happen.

It is inherently flawed, even if people prefer it.

Just like a black & white photo is flawed - real life is in color, right?

 

[Wardsweb]

This past week I got a rather thick catalog from "Musicdirect", all audiophile equipment and "heavy vinyl". Was leafing through it, and found this:

Basically, a preamp for your turntable cartridge. It "...makes music come alive in a way that cannot be verbally expressed."
Only $7,495.
I'll buy two, in case one gets damaged in transit. Yay.

:angelic-green:

If you like that one, you will love the Allnic H-3000 at over $10,000.

 

[Randy]

Thank you Flint!

 

[Flint]

Just like a black & white photo is flawed - real life is in color, right?

I should add... Black & White films can be very enjoyable and sometimes the most beautiful art man can produce. But, the difference between a black & white movie and a LP audio system is that with a movie the creator - the director - has chosen that format. With LPs the user is choosing to change what was heard in the studio. It's similar to taking a color movie at converting it to black & white because that's what you like.

 

[Randy]

Well I guess that is right in line with how many people prefer their sound to be colored or inaccurate, bass heavy, lacking mids, or whatever the preference.

I get it. I cannot believe how many people think I am nuts because I have calibrated my systems, and I have only done the basic stuff.

 

[Deleted member 133]

Just like a black & white photo is flawed - real life is in color, right?

I should add... Black & White films can be very enjoyable and sometimes the most beautiful art man can produce. But, the difference between a black & white movie and a LP audio system is that with a movie the creator - the director - has chosen that format. With LPs the user is choosing to change what was heard in the studio. It's similar to taking a color movie at converting it to black & white because that's what you like.

Even worse (and I curse Ted Turner and the other vandals behind it) is taking a great (or any) black and white film and colourizing it.

 

[Randy]

YUP!!! I like black and white films in black and white too. I was not a fan of the colorization.

 

[Rope]

This past week I got a rather thick catalog from "Musicdirect", all audiophile equipment and "heavy vinyl". Was leafing through it, and found this:

Basically, a preamp for your turntable cartridge. It "...makes music come alive in a way that cannot be verbally expressed."
Only $7,495.
I'll buy two, in case one gets damaged in transit. Yay.

:angelic-green:

If you like that one, you will love the Allnic H-3000 at over $10,000.

For $10,000.00, not only will the music come to life, but wiil take out the garbage, do dishes, laundry and make the bed..

Rope

 

[Botch]

This past week I got a rather thick catalog from "Musicdirect", all audiophile equipment and "heavy vinyl". Was leafing through it, and found this:

Basically, a preamp for your turntable cartridge. It "...makes music come alive in a way that cannot be verbally expressed."
Only $7,495.
I'll buy two, in case one gets damaged in transit. Yay.

:angelic-green:

If you like that one, you will love the Allnic H-3000 at over $10,000.

For $10,000.00, not only will the music come to life, but wiil take out the garbage, do dishes, laundry and make the bed..

Rope

Still cheaper than a real wife... :angelic-green:

 

[Rope]

^^
You'll receive no debate from me.

Rope

 

[malsackj]

Back in the early 80's Soundcraftsman was selling a phone stage just like that.