• Welcome to The Audio Annex! If you have any trouble logging in or signing up, please contact 'admin - at - theaudioannex.com'. Enjoy!
  • HTTPS (secure web browser connection) has been enabled - just add "https://" to the start of the URL in your address bar, e.g. "https://theaudioannex.com/forum/"
  • Congratulations! If you're seeing this notice, it means you're connected to the new server. Go ahead and post as usual, enjoy!
  • I've just upgraded the forum software to Xenforo 2.0. Please let me know if you have any problems with it. I'm still working on installing styles... coming soon.

Accuracy versus Alterations to suit our Tastes: Why do we do this?

Flint

Prodigal Son
Superstar
Many of us got into this hobby because we fell in love with a bunch of music at some point and discovered that the music we loved could be more enjoyable and fulfilling if it was played on better gear than what was playing the music when we fell in love with it. As such, we started getting better HiFi gear and then started learning more about the available gear by reading hobbyist magazines, books, websites, forums, blogs, and even the marketing material high end brand gear was providing to us.

This is what led to many of us joining this forum, or one of its several predecessors.

To better enjoy our new gear, tuned properly and put into better rooms that we ever thought we'd have, we started listening to demo material which took advantage of everything we were spending our time and money on, and that took us to ethereal heights we hadn't known before. But we still loved that music that got us hooked on the art form and all the gear and knowledge we acquired.

However, it can be disappointing to hear what we thought was the greatest music of all time played on a perfect audio system. The leap in the level aural ecstasy we experienced going from FM Radio over a pair of Sony earbud headphones, or from our parent's huge Kenwood separates stereo with poor performing faux 8-way speakers, to a gear separates system of our own with a great pair of Paradigm or Advent speakers and that amazing NAD integrated amp - a leap in excitement and thrilling experiences that got us into this hobby - get's harder and harder to reproduce with the same music.

I remember distinctly a former active member of our group sitting with me at a listening session in Atlanta in front of a pair of Dynaudio C1 speakers after I completed the 73 minutes of my speaker auditioning CDs leaping up and declaring it his turn. He put on his iPod and played his beloved Radiohead album and was so disgusted he got up and walked out just a few minutes into the music. He expected that music, which sounded a little lifeless and lacking airy treble and punchy bass on his midrange home rig to sound amazing on this set of killer speakers in a relatively well treated room. He had the prior music as reference, and was eager to be blown away by his favorite music.

But, it was horrible. The music was dead, flat, dull, honky, and drab. Everything you could imagine wanting in the sound quality of a recording was absent. He was devastated.

But, I argue that is just how it is. Great music is great music even if it isn't as clear, dynamic, punchy, shimmery, or aurally delightful as the demonstration tracks used by audio stores to impress you. The fact you loved it over your car audio system or the factory earphones that came with your iPhone doesn't mean it has to sound better on a $5,000 set of speakers in a well tuned room.

However, it is disappointing when you realize the bass drum in that Motown song will never sound any better than it did on the AM radio in the dentist's office when you first hear it and fell in love with it. It can be frustrating to realize that you may never understand what the drummer yells during the break in that song you discovered in a movie soundtrack.


What I find strange is that this topic has come up with no fewer than 5 people over the past couple of weeks, including some of you guys. Some of you are disappointed enough to talk about wishing it were different. Some even boost the bass or treble, or, buy dynamic range expanders, or, go looking for different versions of the same songs you love which are better recorded. You buy remastered versions of albums thinking they will be more dynamic or have more bass and treble than the originals. You think acquiring high resolution version or going back to vinyl will somehow restore the excitement the first time you heard those great tunes.

But I argue, it is what it is. We don't go removing the brush strokes and adding colors to paintings by Renoir or Monet to make them look more like photographs. Ted Turner thought colorizing old black and white classic movies would make them better, but today we rarely see those renditions and instead see restored black and white versions. Art isn't about making one thing into something else because something else might have some characteristic you like an awful lot.

I see it like this...

The more perfect I make my reproduction system, the less likely I am damaging the original recording when I listen it to. Sure, for much of my favorite music my listening rig is extremely over the top and unnecessary. But I know it can never, ever sound better no matter what I do. I like that. The Kinks' "The Village Green Preservation Society" album cannot sound any better than it does on my rig even if it doesn't any worse on my uncle's old Kenwood separates system with faux 8-way speakers. However, when I do put in a recording which tests the limits of my system, I get to enjoy that more on my ultra-precise system than I ever would on my uncle's old system. In fact, there are literally hundreds of albums I own which I don't think I would enjoy very much at all if I didn't have very good to supreme reproduction systems on which to listen to them.

So, the more time and money I spend on my listening system, the greater my ability to enjoy more recordings. I don't need to "improve" the lower quality recordings to love them every bit as much as I did in 1982 when I first heard them and fell in love. But, to my surprise, some music I assumed was recorded poorly, like early Van Halen, turns out to be really damn amazing on my high end system. It is delightful to unexpectedly get a shock like that.

What about you? Do you feel the need to "improve" your favorite old recordings which are lacking in the sound quality department? Or, are you like me and happily accept their limitations?
 
Last edited:
What about you? Do you feel the need to "improve" your favorite old recordings which are lacking in the sound quality department? Or, are you like me and happily accept their limitations?
Neither. I simply don't (critically) listen to it anymore on my home system. If I like the music enough to want to hear it again, I'll put it on my phone and play it when I mow the yard, blow snow and/or drive.

To your point, I've been disappointed enough times after paying a premium for an exotic format such as a Mobile Fidelity SACD of a 70's album. Sometimes they sound cleaner and clearer, but not always. And they rarely, if ever, sound better. But I never attempt to change or tweak my system in order to improve an otherwise disappointing sound. It is what it is.

To quench my audiophile thirst, I will occasionally listen to music I don't really care for if it sounds fantastic played back on my system and just appreciate the sound quality and presentation if nothing else. Those moments are short lived though and usually find myself playing something that I genuinely like even if it is a less-than-stellar presentation. But if it flat out sounds bad, it just doesn't ever get played again.
 
I'll always choose the best sounding version of a loved piece of music. Just like I enjoy HD over standard TV. In fact I find it odd that you enjoy poorly recorded music.

I also enjoy the energy of live performances, thus I like my bass about 2-3db high in most cases. I find doing this gets me the closest to live ROCK music.

Just because a great piece of music is recorded poorly that doesn't make me dislike the song any less. It just means I'll tend to save that music for car listening and casual den listening.
 
@Flint, I totally get all that you're saying. I can't describe how much my appreciation for music has deepened since I joined this forum (tail end of the S&V days), and got exposed to a MUCH wider variety of music than I ever had before (having grown up mainly on classical). And yes, improved gear has a hell of a lot to do with it - well-recorded music played back on a good system has greater power to move me emotionally. I agree with you, it's certainly not impossible to enjoy music on a sub-par system, but it tends to have less impact; also because as others have said, one tends to be doing other stuff at the same time in many cases, and the music isn't central.

This was reinforced recently when my brother-in-law came over for their usual Thanksgiving visit. We listened to some of the recent Norah Jones concert, and he was completely blown away (as I was and still am by that performance, not just the recording itself although it's very good, demo-worthy in its own subdued style - e.g. it's not gonna blow your socks off with the subs). He's been to my house before and he was into headphones for a while (he still has a stax set), but he doesn't have anything for speakers (not a big house, 3 young kids). But after listening to that, he said something like, "I feel like my music before has just come from McDonalds, and now I'm feasting in a 5 star restaurant." It's just a totally different experience if you can find that right combo of a good system and great music.

I believe I'm at the point now where my major limitation for speakers is my room. It's horrible for acoustics, a lovely multiple 8 x 12 x 16. Non-symmetric with windows and a fireplace on one side. Having heard some great rooms (Heeman's being the prime example in my experience), I think further upgrades to my speakers would be utterly pointless. I've spent a lot of time fiddling and tuning what I have, and I enjoy it very much, but it's not gonna get any better. This has a lot to do with why I've also gotten seriously into headphone gear; my headphones are "higher end" relatively speaking than my speakers. I think; of course it's not easy to compare. But high end headphone gear is also less expensive than high end speakers, on average, another reason to get into that.

I haven't done a lot of critical listening in the past few years. I haven't come across too many albums where I really get the feel of "crap this is a terrible recording." The only one I can think of off the top of my head at the moment is a Robert Plant + Alison Krauss duet album. (You would think these two would have better engineers...) There have been other times where I've thought "hmmm that sounds a bit harsh/shrill" and I have enough confidence in my gear that I've generally come to the conclusion that it's the recording itself. But it doesn't really bother me overall.

I certainly agree that I would never tweak my system settings in order to improve a specific album/recording.
 
I have become completely obsesses with this topic over the past few months. With the new audio hobbyists with which I've brought up these conversations, I have been shocked by the reaction of most.

The overall impression, for those who enjoy listening to music (as opposed to those who are simply collectors and really could give a crap about the music itself) the feeling is that music should sound as good as the best recordings ever made. In other words, if you build a killer system and discover an amazing recording that sings like magic on it, the old music you loved should also sound just as good or else the system isn't really that good at all. Therefor, in many cases having a crappy system is preferred because it won't show the limitations of one's favorite music.

I like to use Radiohead in these discussions as the true weakness in this logic. The recordings are relatively modern, but they do not sound any better on the best system on the planet as they do on an average system. Why? Because of how they are recorded and mastered - the artists chose to make the music sound "low-fi" and lacking detail, depth, resolution, dynamics, and so on. However, if you have a system which can recreate the most incredible dynamics, frequency range, and details, playing a Radiohead recording will not make it any better than it sounded on the cheap earbuds you originally heard it on, or the car of TV speakers that first played it for you.

Most audio nerds I am meeting would prefer to EQ the sound to "improve" the apparent quality of the not so high fidelity recordings. Others will refrain from listening on anything other than their car stereos or cheap headphones.

So, a fascinating new feature now being regularly added to high resolution streaming devices for high end audio is presets for EQ and even dynamic range. Most of the modern "audiophile" streamers and/or software now has a range of presets to make your recordings sound closer to your assumptions. Most allow you to apply a preset to a specific track or album which automatically activate every time you play that music once you assign a modification.

Now, think about that.... people will spend thousands of dollars to get a streaming device and software which can with absolute bit accurate data play your high resolution audio files, yet will apply EQ, Dynamic Range expansion or compression, and / or level changes - all functions which vastly alter the data before converting it to analog at the output.

So.... why bother with trying to get accuracy at all cost only to alter the data and abandon all semblance of accuracy???

This hobby is about to make me crazy.
 
I, like many of you, have had a number of systems over the years. i had my first one 55 years ago it was dpretty crappy and at that time all iwas interested in was the music, didn't even think of "sound quality" at that time. I had a couple cheap all in one systems after that then in college the guys that lived next door to me introduced me to quality sound and I was hooked. More systems followed and they started to have equlizer function which I played with and really thought improved things for many years.

About 10 - 15 years ago I stopped altering the recordingsd coming thru my system. The last couple receivers I have had have an equalizer function but I will be darned if I knew exactly how to access them never thought to use them.

I love jazz from the 1920s, '30s and 40s. A majority of the recordings available are not what we today would consider of very good quality but the I have no problem listening to Sydnet Bechet, Bix Biedderbeck and others. I seem to have evolved to the point where I can unconscionably focus on the music and not the imperfections in the recordings.
 
Agreed.................years ago it was all about getting that new album and spinning it multiple times to hear the new music. Never did the sound quality come into the equation.

How times have really changed........................
 
Coincidentally I have thought about this topic a lot the past couple of years. Over the years as I've gotten better speakers, etc, and have listened to a wider variety of music, I realize how poorly or strangely recorded/mastered many albums are.

While I of course enjoy listening to good recordings on my main playback system, I have also kind of had to relearn to be ok with (appreciate) listening to songs that are enjoyable albeit poorly mastered. And likewise if I'm in a loud environment or am focusing on other things (e.g. at work, etc), I have reset my expectations to enjoy my music even if with super cheap earbuds, etc.

I guess in summary, I've had to learn how to set my expectations based on the mastering of the song, the playback equipment, the environment, etc. lol.
 
Yesterday I had another conversation with a local audio nut about this topic and his view was that accurate reproduction was impossible and even if it was possible it is a foolish pursuit because the music we listen to wasn't mastered on a perfect system.

I get his point. He is saying the only way to truly hear what the artists intend would be to go to the studios or mastering suites where the final product was completed. I do understand that viewpoint.

So, his home audio design philosophy is to get a music system which tends to make your favorite music sound as good as that music can sound, and just screw what everything else sounds like. So I had to ask, if my favorite music is old prog rock from the 1970s, does that mean I should have a bass boost to make up for the lack of bass in those recordings? Then, when I play a modern prog rock recording the bass will be completely overpowering and painful? Is that what he meant - well, I wasn't that blunt, but in essence that's how he sees it.

Which, really, is pretty much how I see it as an end product. The difference being that I consider making the audio system invisible by making it as accurate as possible in every way. Then if a recording lacks bass, so does its reproduction. If a recording lacks dynamic range, then so does its playback. If a recording is harsh, then so is the in room listening experience. Basically, you get what is in the media while adding or subtracting as little as possible - as few alterations as can be accomplished.

Meanwhile, my new friend will have a system which shines on about 10% of the music collection he owns and it sound terrible on some recordings considered to be reference grade because his system's alterations to make his favorite music sound BETTER than the source content makes outstanding reference recordings sound bad.

I asked when he can enjoy the rest of his music collection and he admits that a large portion of it, music he does enjoy, doesn't ever get any playing time on his main rig. Instead, he enjoys those other albums in his car or as background music around the house, or using headphones while doing other things. I find that sad - really sad.
 
I had another conversation today with the same guy as the one which inspired the last post above.

As we spoke, I realized what I am really getting at is that while I can control the quality of the reproduction of a recording, I cannot control the quality of the recording. When we acquire content, from wherever we get it, it comes as it is. We cannot make content sound truly different, as it is what it is.

So, I completely accept the content for what it is. If the music isn't to my tastes, I am not going to listen to it and will likely not buy it. If the performance isn't to my tastes, I will likely not own it. If the sonics are not to my tastes, I may or I may not own it. What I want to enjoy is the music and the performance. If the sonics are terrible, then so be it. I love The Replacements, yet they never made a remotely decent sounding recording. Same for most of the music from The Residents, The Kinks, Articles of Faith, and dozens (if not hundreds) of artists whom I love to listen to for the music. However, sometimes the music, performance and sonic qualities all line up on a single album, and then I am in heaven. But I can only find that heaven of the reproduction system is as linearly ideal as is possible.
 
It also falls true in other areas. The DBX driverack has in the settings setups for Rock and Jazz performance. So it is not limited to home audio or home theater.
 
Back
Top