Changed speaker heights now sub isn't playing as before

[bmwuk]

I have a 7.1 setup with an older Yamaha TSR-7790 that I picked up of accessories 4 less back in 2018. My room is multi-use in that behind the seating area is storage for my girls toys, a couple of tables etc.

I had the speakers up higher than I ideally wanted because my girls were younger at the time but now that my youngest is almost 6 and they know not to touch my speakers, I've decided to delve into Dolby Atmos. So the first step in this process was to move my surround sound speakers closer to ear level height. So I've gone through that process and had to slightly rearrange some Lego storage bins closer to the subwoofer that is in the back left corner from seating position.

I have a PSA 15 inch subwoofer that has worked amazing with my system. However, now that I've rerun YPAO (it is a basic version) with its microphone, now the subwoofer is barely noticeable.

What could have possibly happened that the subwoofer is suddenly playing barely?

 

[Huey]

I have a 7.1 setup with an older Yamaha TSR-7790 that I picked up of accessories 4 less back in 2018. My room is multi-use in that behind the seating area is storage for my girls toys, a couple of tables etc.

I had the speakers up higher than I ideally wanted because my girls were younger at the time but now that my youngest is almost 6 and they know not to touch my speakers, I've decided to delve into Dolby Atmos. So the first step in this process was to move my surround sound speakers closer to ear level height. So I've gone through that process and had to slightly rearrange some Lego storage bins closer to the subwoofer that is in the back left corner from seating position.

I have a PSA 15 inch subwoofer that has worked amazing with my system. However, now that I've rerun YPAO (it is a basic version) with its microphone, now the subwoofer is barely noticeable.

What could have possibly happened that the subwoofer is suddenly playing barely?

I would check and see how YPAO set up your speaker size. Notorious for setting all speakers to large, so unless that's how you want them, I'd start there.

 

[bmwuk]

I would check and see how YPAO set up your speaker size. Notorious for setting all speakers to large, so unless that's how you want them, I'd start there.

Correct. It always does when you do auto setup but I always go back manually and change to small for all speakers. So that's been covered.

 

[Huey]

Correct. It always does when you do auto setup but I always go back manually and change to small for all speakers. So that's been covered.

Good! Next thing would be checking the crossover, as well as manually checking speaker levels if you have a meter.

 

[bmwuk]

Good! Next thing would be checking the crossover, as well as manually checking speaker levels if you have a meter.

I have an SPL, 2 actually. But how do you check subs? Where should the dials on my PSA be?

 

[Huey]

I have an SPL, 2 actually. But how do you check subs? Where should the dials on my PSA be?

Should be a setting on the Yamaha that outputs test tones for all the speakers, including the sub. I'd probably start at 50% volume on the sub and work from there. You will have to run ypao after, but it should be more accurate. You may have to increase or decrease the volume knob on the sub as you check levels. I'm not familiar with your receiver, but I have yet to see a yamaha receiver that you didn't have to turn the test tones, usually a yes/no or on/off option, and then find the setting for the speaker level output. I don't know why yamaha makes you go through that extra step, but if you don't, you won't hear anything from the test tones.

 

[bmwuk]

Should be a setting on the Yamaha that outputs test tones for all the speakers, including the sub. I'd probably start at 50% volume on the sub and work from there. You will have to run ypao after, but it should be more accurate. You may have to increase or decrease the volume knob on the sub as you check levels. I'm not familiar with your receiver, but I have yet to see a yamaha receiver that you didn't have to turn the test tones, usually a yes/no or on/off option, and then find the setting for the speaker level output. I don't know why yamaha makes you go through that extra step, but if you don't, you won't hear anything from the test tones.

I'm familiar with the test tone setup as such. I mean the speakers are easy on that level. I just don't know on the sub if I balance it out at the same SPL.

 

[Huey]

I'm familiar with the test tone setup as such. I mean the speakers are easy on that level. I just don't know on the sub if I balance it out at the same SPL.

Yes, still should be the same spl as the speakers. You may have to turn it up or down manually to be able to adjust them all accordingly, that's why I say start at the 50% mark.

 

[bmwuk]

Yes, still should be the same spl as the speakers. You may have to turn it up or down manually to be able to adjust them all accordingly, that's why I say start at the 50% mark.

Turn up via receiver or turn up via subwoofer dials?

 

[Randy]

Also remember a correctly calibrated sub should be " barely noticeable".
Your sub should not stand out, it should blend in with your mains and disappear.
A lot of folks have their subs too hot because we like it that way.

Is simply a calibration issue or will the sub gain or volume not allow it to play as loud as you want it to?
In that case it may be a mechanical issue.

 

[Huey]

Turn up via receiver or turn up via subwoofer dials?

50% on the subwoofer dial. Depending on your other speakers, that still maybe too loud or soft, and you may need to adjust accordingly. Personally, I would get all the speakers levels close, including sub, rerun ypao, and then double check levels again to make sure ypao didn't make any mistakes. Example, and these are numbers only for the example and will be different on yours, but set all speaker levels to zero on the yamaha, put a test tone on, and then raise the volume level on the yamaha until the spl says 75db. Since the test ones usually start with the left front speaker, and move around the room, move to center and adjust up or down until it says 75, and then the same with the other speakers. When you get to the sub, see where it starts out at on the spl meter, and see if you can adjust enough using the speaker controls on the yamaha. If not, this is where you would have to turn the volume knob on the sub accordingly. Again, not familiar with the model, but have owned many yamaha's. One thing to keep in mind, when adjusting speaker levels, anytime you go over zero in the setting, it will diminish the max volume SETTING, but not the volume output. So if your receiver out of the box has a range of -60 to +20, any speaker setting over zero will drop that positive number accordingly. (Probably shouldn't even say this because it's probably confusing.) Good luck!

 

[Batman]

I also usually keep the sub gain around 50-60% on the subwoofer’s dial and fine tune through the receiver/processor.

 

[Huey]

I also usually keep the sub gain around 50-60% on the subwoofer’s dial and fine tune through the receiver/processor.

This!

 

[bmwuk]

Also remember a correctly calibrated sub should be " barely noticeable".
Your sub should not stand out, it should blend in with your mains and disappear.
A lot of folks have their subs too hot because we like it that way.

Is simply a calibration issue or will the sub gain or volume not allow it to play as loud as you want it to?
In that case it may be a mechanical issue.

Yes agreed. No this is not the issue. It is the difference of bass vs a whimper

 

[Huey]

Here's a video of the guy that started Audioholics explaining how to setup your speaker levels using a spl meter. I didn't watch the video, but I assume he'll talk sub volume as well.

 

[bmwuk]

Here's a video of the guy that started Audioholics explaining how to setup your speaker levels using a spl meter. I didn't watch the video, but I assume he'll talk sub volume as well.

Stupid question. Run the YPAO then this or just do all manual?

 

[bmwuk]

Fyi this is my area behind seating. As mentioned, it is a multi use area with the girls and my speakers. The subwoofer is over to the back right in the picture. I moved the legos to the other side. Will start playing with the calibration now. The speaker wires and outlets will be moved down as this is temporary and the walls patched and painted

I don't keep the grilles off, I just did for the photo.

 

[bmwuk]

Okay, YPAO and SPL meter basically matched.. distance measurements were spot on for speakers (excluding sub because I never understand that one)
So now the question is, typically would have my receiver at -17db (obviously relative) but now it seems my receive to achieve the same volumes needs to be -12db or more. This is with YPAO. I didn't change anything with the receiver minus cycling on and off because I was unplugging surrounds and lowering. Occurred several times

 

[Huey]

Okay, YPAO and SPL meter basically matched.. distance measurements were spot on for speakers (excluding sub because I never understand that one)
So now the question is, typically would have my receiver at -17db (obviously relative) but now it seems my receive to achieve the same volumes needs to be -12db or more. This is with YPAO. I didn't change anything with the receiver minus cycling on and off because I was unplugging surrounds and lowering. Occurred several times

Are you saying it's playing -12db softer? or louder? Like you said, it's all relative and when you adjust speaker levels, it affects the setting at which you would listen at. So if out of the box every speaker level is at zero, and volume range is -60 to +20, if you raise any speaker above zero, lets say to +5, your volume range would now be -60 to +15. And if your normal listening is at -20, it would now be closer to -25, if that makes sense.

 

[bmwuk]

Are you saying it's playing -12db softer? or louder? Like you said, it's all relative and when you adjust speaker levels, it affects the setting at which you would listen at. So if out of the box every speaker level is at zero, and volume range is -60 to +20, if you raise any speaker above zero, lets say to +5, your volume range would now be -60 to +15. And if your normal listening is at -20, it would now be closer to -25, if that makes sense.

No, I had to turn up my volume from -17 to -12db to get a perceived same volume as before. But sitting down with a few discs such as Blade Runner 2049 and Tenet, I may be incorrect.

These are both on 4k disc. I guess I am slightly disappointed with the output of Disney + with the bass from Andor where I don't think I had that problem before. I expected more oomph. Is it possible my Sony TV settings for sound got messed up? I will have to rewatch in a bit to see.

But if things go well, I should have a new receiver by mid summer. Looking at the Marantz Cinema 50 for numerous reasons. It has 11 channel processing, it allows you to assign what channels you want to power with you external amp (many only let you do back Atmos - my ATI I want driving my mains), most up to date on video stuff, allows you to shut off power side once external amp is only used, turning it into a pre/pro (hope to get 11 channel Monolith)