Dynamic Range -- CD, Vinyl, Reel to Reel

[TKoP]

I thought my internet skillz were good enough to find this answer, but apparently my Kung Fu is lacking these days.

Anyone know the answer since I can't seem to find it on the web. I'm sure it's buried in one of thos CD v. Vinyl arguments, but I'd rather now wade through that morass right now.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

CD has the best at >90dB. Reel to reel has about 60 dB without noise reduction at 15 ips (I'm talking half track here - quarter track is about 3dB worse), and vinyl is less than that, depending on the quality of the mastering, the pressing etc.

Of course pure dynamic range numbers don't tell the whole story.

 

[TKoP]

CD has the best at >90dB. Reel to reel has about 60 dB without noise reduction at 15 ips (I'm talking half track here - quarter track is about 3dB worse), and vinyl is less than that, depending on the quality of the mastering, the pressing etc.

Of course pure dynamic range numbers don't tell the whole story.

Thanks .. and completely understand. Someday I'll have to do a side by side and see if my damaged hearing (I worked MANY concerts as a young twenty-something) can show a preference.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

YMMV, but my sound quality preference is vinyl, reel to reel, and last digital in that order.

 

[TKoP]

YMMV, but my sound quality preference is vinyl, reel to reel, and last digital in that order.

I knew your relative positions for Vinyl and CD, but I didn't know where the reel to reel landed in your preferences.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

YMMV, but my sound quality preference is vinyl, reel to reel, and last digital in that order.

I knew your relative positions for Vinyl and CD, but I didn't know where the reel to reel landed in your preferences.

Yes, its little known by most people, but magnetic tape recording (no matter the format) behaves just like a push pull balanced amplifier, i.e. the even order harmonic distortion components are cancelled out by the recording process (inherently balanced) leaving only the harsher odd order harmonics. The only saving grace is that the harmonic series only goes up to about the 7th or 9th harmonic before the distortion components pretty much disappear, unlike a balanced power amp. Disc (vinyl) recording has no such limitation, and the distortion series is more like a true class "A" single ended triode amplifier. The sound therefore errors on the "warm" or "organic" side, since even order harmonic components are pure octave multiples of the fundamental musical frequency, and not a fractional derivative of the fundamental.

Digital is obviously more "accurate" to the source, but that doesn't matter squat if it doesn't please the ear as much. As usual YMMV!

Now you know. :music-rockout:

 

[malsackj]

Yes very interesting read. When I search google and read the schematic it appears the Read head on the Reel To Reel it appears the transistors are setup as Class A.

So if I have a receiver at home with balanced outputs your saying the even order harmonics are cancelled out when sent to the amplifier. Same is true for the mic inputs at the mixer threw to the amps in balanced lines. These tools are what is used to record some of the records in the studio that we are listening to.

 

[malsackj]

Here is a Sony.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Here is a Sony.

It has to do with the fact the the tape is magnetized in a symmetrical manner around the zero magnetization point rather than having to do with the electronics in the machine. On the magnetic level, the process is inherently "balanced". Record a tone on a good recorder and look at the spectrum on an analyzer like TrueRTA, and you will see predominantly the odd harmonics with little presence of the even ones (assuming the machine is working correctly and has the bias set up correctly). A cassette recorder might have more distortion simply because of the very low speed.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

So if I have a receiver at home with balanced outputs your saying the even order harmonics are cancelled out when sent to the amplifier. Same is true for the mic inputs at the mixer threw to the amps in balanced lines. These tools are what is used to record some of the records in the studio that we are listening to.

The even order harmonic distortion components are suppressed ONLY within the stage passing the signal, i.e. the distortion added within that one balanced stage is mostly odd order. A line amp which is balanced won't effect or remove the harmonics coming in on the input.

On a related note, if you follow a balanced stage (or any stage really) with a stage which has heavy even order harmonic distortion (like a single ended triode tube amp), those even order harmonic components will act to "swamp out" the distortion signature of the preceeding stage, making it predominantly even order, and "covering up" the damage of the odd order harmonics added from the previous stage. Of course it will add even order harmonics to _everything_ coming through the stage, even musical instrument harmonics, but these even order harmonics tend to make everything sound richer, and generally more pleasing. At least to my humble ears...... :music-rockout:

This is why tube processing gear is so popular in recording studios.

 

[malsackj]

Thanks Sounding Good !

 

[Randy]

The even order harmonic distortion components are suppressed ONLY within the stage passing the signal, i.e. the distortion added within that one balanced stage is mostly odd order. A line amp which is balanced won't effect or remove the harmonics coming in on the input.

On a related note, if you follow a balanced stage (or any stage really) with a stage which has heavy even order harmonic distortion (like a single ended triode tube amp), those even order harmonic components will act to "swamp out" the distortion signature of the preceeding stage, making it predominantly even order, and "covering up" the damage of the odd order harmonics added from the previous stage. Of course it will add even order harmonics to _everything_ coming through the stage, even musical instrument harmonics, but these even order harmonics tend to make everything sound richer, and generally more pleasing. At least to my humble ears...... :music-rockout:

This is why tube processing gear is so popular in recording studios.

I had actually read that somewhere before. There used to be really smart guy that posted regularly over at the old S&V forum, knew a lot about amps and such, and I think he may have posted it over there.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

The even order harmonic distortion components are suppressed ONLY within the stage passing the signal, i.e. the distortion added within that one balanced stage is mostly odd order. A line amp which is balanced won't effect or remove the harmonics coming in on the input.

On a related note, if you follow a balanced stage (or any stage really) with a stage which has heavy even order harmonic distortion (like a single ended triode tube amp), those even order harmonic components will act to "swamp out" the distortion signature of the preceeding stage, making it predominantly even order, and "covering up" the damage of the odd order harmonics added from the previous stage. Of course it will add even order harmonics to _everything_ coming through the stage, even musical instrument harmonics, but these even order harmonics tend to make everything sound richer, and generally more pleasing. At least to my humble ears...... :music-rockout:

This is why tube processing gear is so popular in recording studios.

I had actually read that somewhere before. There used to be really smart guy that posted regularly over at the old S&V forum, knew a lot about amps and such, and I think he may have posted it over there.

I read some of what he wrote too. He was an idiot. :teasing-tease: