HCA-1000A

[Wardsweb]

OK, I'm not a numbers person, so I have to ask; have you thought about borrowing a couple amps to see how they sound with your speakers? Be it from friends or demo from a shop. It will let you know how yours compares or if you like something else more.

I have amps from 1.5 watts to 4000 watts. Each has it's merits and mates well with some speakers and not so well with others. For me, numbers give me a base line but music is emotional, so hearing lets me know if I like it and if there is synergy with the rest of my system. Just my two cents.

 

[CMonster]

^Oh man, you have NO idea the can of worms you just opened...

 

[Flint]

One of the things I always look at is noise floor, which is very hard to deduce from the specifications. Since your speakers have a relatively low sensitivity, most good amps will not present a problematic noise floor, so in this case it isn't as critical. But, when sitting in a quiet room with your gear all turned on and the sources selected, you should not hear any hiss, hum, or buzz coming from the speakers while seated at the listening position. The way to really tell if you can hear anything is to sit with the system on for 5 minutes or so and just try like heck to hear anything, then turn it all off and sit for a minute to see if you can hear any difference. You should not.

One of the main reasons I am confident that the HCA-1000A is more than sufficient in almost every way is that I use and love that amp. It has been my go to amp since they first released it in the 1990s and I was sorely disappointed when it was discontinued. It is my long standing experience with that model which convinces me it is a great amp for what you are doing. The numbers alone cannot replace experience.

If you are looking to upgrade, a larger Halo amp is good, as are Bryston amps. You need a proper work horse which won't get worn out when used at significantly higher levels than most people use their amps for. For instance, I love the Behringer A500 amp for its value and performance in home theater settings. But, when pushed hard consistently it can wear out quicker than it should and the sound quality when pushed hard starts to suffer - and it isn't common that any well made solid state amp will "sound bad when pushed", but the cost savings that go into the A500 start to show when the amp is working very hard.

 

[Wardsweb]

^Oh man, you have NO idea the can of worms you just opened...

I don't mean to start any kind of debate. Just giving my opinion. My main system speakers are over 100dB efficient, so I can really hear if an amp is not up to snuff. I don't need a lot of power but it has to be dead quiet.

 

[heeman]

OK, I'm not a numbers person, so I have to ask; have you thought about borrowing a couple amps to see how they sound with your speakers? Be it from friends or demo from a shop. It will let you know how yours compares or if you like something else more.

I have amps from 1.5 watts to 4000 watts. Each has it's merits and mates well with some speakers and not so well with others. For me, numbers give me a base line but music is emotional, so hearing lets me know if I like it and if there is synergy with the rest of my system. Just my two cents.

WW, thanks.................however maybe you don't remember that I live in an area that the closest hi-end shop may be near you? :laughing-rolling:

Not a lot of options down here at the end of the world, I mean the U.S.

Most of my local friends have No Clue on what a real audio/video system is all about....that's why I hang out here.

:music-rockout: :music-rockout:

 

[CMonster]

^Oh man, you have NO idea the can of worms you just opened...

I don't mean to start any kind of debate. Just giving my opinion. My main system speakers are over 100dB efficient, so I can really hear if an amp is not up to snuff. I don't need a lot of power but it has to be dead quiet.

No, it's not that. Keith just has, ummm, a tendency to really go down the rabbit hole once he gets started. Ask him about grey paint...

 

[heeman]

:scared-eek: :scared-yipes: :text-+1: :laughing-rolling:

 

[yromj]

Does the inverse square law about the output loss over distance apply at the same rate for adding a second speaker?

The C1 is rated at 1W = 85 dB at 1m. Keith sits 8.5 feet from it. So 1W at 8.5 feet is going to yield 66dB, which is a 19dB loss over that distance. But the rating and calculation is for one speaker. Does adding a second speaker offer a 19dB increase in output?

66dB? Is that right? 85 @ 1m; 85-6=79 @ 2m (1mx2; 6.6'); 79-6=73 @ 4m (2mx2; 13.2'). That's just quick in my head stuff but 66dB seems really low to me. I would have guessed more like 75.

John

 

[Flint]

Does the inverse square law about the output loss over distance apply at the same rate for adding a second speaker?

The C1 is rated at 1W = 85 dB at 1m. Keith sits 8.5 feet from it. So 1W at 8.5 feet is going to yield 66dB, which is a 19dB loss over that distance. But the rating and calculation is for one speaker. Does adding a second speaker offer a 19dB increase in output?

66dB? Is that right? 85 @ 1m; 85-6=79 @ 2m (1mx2; 6.6'); 79-6=73 @ 4m (2mx2; 13.2'). That's just quick in my head stuff but 66dB seems really low to me. I would have guessed more like 75.

John

You are right... using one of the many online calculators a speaker putting out 85dB SPL at 1 meter will be reduced to 77dB SPL at 8.5 feet.

So... my calculations in answer were wrong.

 

[heeman]

One of the things I always look at is noise floor, which is very hard to deduce from the specifications. Since your speakers have a relatively low sensitivity, most good amps will not present a problematic noise floor, so in this case it isn't as critical. But, when sitting in a quiet room with your gear all turned on and the sources selected, you should not hear any hiss, hum, or buzz coming from the speakers while seated at the listening position. The way to really tell if you can hear anything is to sit with the system on for 5 minutes or so and just try like heck to hear anything, then turn it all off and sit for a minute to see if you can hear any difference. You should not.

One of the main reasons I am confident that the HCA-1000A is more than sufficient in almost every way is that I use and love that amp. It has been my go to amp since they first released it in the 1990s and I was sorely disappointed when it was discontinued. It is my long standing experience with that model which convinces me it is a great amp for what you are doing. The numbers alone cannot replace experience.

If you are looking to upgrade, a larger Halo amp is good, as are Bryston amps. You need a proper work horse which won't get worn out when used at significantly higher levels than most people use their amps for. For instance, I love the Behringer A500 amp for its value and performance in home theater settings. But, when pushed hard consistently it can wear out quicker than it should and the sound quality when pushed hard starts to suffer - and it isn't common that any well made solid state amp will "sound bad when pushed", but the cost savings that go into the A500 start to show when the amp is working very hard.

So far the amps are working well and sound great. I just wanted confirmation from some of you cracker jack guys on here that it is sufficient and is letting me get great performance from these better than average speakers. I have been in contact with ATI and Parasound discussing amplifiers in my budget and even though the ATI seems to be the better bang for the buck performance wise ( the AT-2003 & AT 1803) I think the Parasound Halo A31 is by far a better amplifier. Slew Rate alone is more than 2X. It carriers a pretty heft price at $3500. I will keep my eye out for a B-Stock. The other options is a used HCA-1500A for approx. $500.

Do you know how much you gain by crossing these at 80Hz, it has to gain something.j

Thanks to all that have contributed........... :happy-smileygiantred:

:music-rockout: :music-rockout:

 

[Zing]

66dB? Is that right? 85 @ 1m; 85-6=79 @ 2m (1mx2; 6.6'); 79-6=73 @ 4m (2mx2; 13.2'). That's just quick in my head stuff but 66dB seems really low to me. I would have guessed more like 75.

You know, I thought the 19dB loss was kind of excessive. I went here, entered 1m, 85dB and then 8.5 ft and it gave me the 66dB result. Not sure what I did wrong but I'm getting 76dB now.
:text-imsorry:

 

[yromj]

The computer goofed. Plain and simple. In the end it doesn't really matter but I knew that Keith was going to be listening at levels that wouldn't be achievable if he started at 66dB.

John

 

[Flint]

66dB? Is that right? 85 @ 1m; 85-6=79 @ 2m (1mx2; 6.6'); 79-6=73 @ 4m (2mx2; 13.2'). That's just quick in my head stuff but 66dB seems really low to me. I would have guessed more like 75.

You know, I thought the 19dB loss was kind of excessive. I went here, entered 1m, 85dB and then 8.5 ft and it gave me the 66dB result. Not sure what I did wrong but I'm getting 76dB now.
:text-imsorry:

I figured it out. You put in 8.5 M instead of 8.5 feet. I just did the same thing really easily.

 

[Flint]

Do you know how much you gain by crossing these at 80Hz, it has to gain something.j

Okay... this is not really easy to definitively state.

With most musical signals, the majority of the high current output tends to be in the bass region (though this is not universally true). As such, filtering out the bass from the signal before you feed it to the amp could mean reducing the current demand on the amp needed to generate a given SPL in the operating range (above 80Hz, in this case).

So, in theory at least, using a high pass filter at 80Hz will reduce some of the effort the amp has to make to get to the SPL levels you want to achieve.

Looking at the impedance and phase curve of the Dyanudio C1 published by Stereophile (below), the lowest impedance point is in the 170Hz to 180Hz rance, so you are lightening the current demand due to low impedance by using a high pass filter. However, much of the complex phase angle range from 10Hz to 130Hz will be reduced from the amp's current load (as in the amp will still see the complex phase angles, but it won't have to drive much power into most of that range as it will be filtered out below 80Hz).

So, using a high pass filter will definitely help with how the amp behaves, but the peak SPL from 100Hz to 20,000Hz will remain exactly the same regardless.

 

[heeman]

So less chance for a distorted signal to the speakers?

 

[Flint]

Right... the less stress on the amp, the less potential for some sort of distortion.

 

[Zing]

This is one of several reasons why I keep my XO point at 90Hz.

 

[heeman]

I had a rather lengthy phone conversation with Richard Schram; President of Parasound, yesterday about the HCA-1000A, the C1's and his recommended amplifier upgrades. He started off by saying that he is extremely familiar with Dynaudio and the C1's. He spoke about their incredible sound stage and the impeccable engineering that has gone into the Confidence Line.

I showed interest in the Halo A-31 their 3 channel amp. After asking me about what and how I listened to, he indicated that if I were to upgrade the A-21 is really a much better choice due to my music listening frequency. If we did mostly HT, then the A-31 would be a better $/performance option.

He also said, as realized here, that the HCA-1000A shared many similarities to the A-21 and still be sufficient, but there would be a significant increase in performance with the A-21. Primarily due to the lay-out and power supply in the A-21 compared to the A-31. He also indicated that for lower level listening the A-21 would stay in the Class "A" Mode and provide a much better sound.

He also recommend trying to run the HCA-1000A in bridged mode (Chis also recommended this to me) and monitor the heat. Even though their website does not recommend this because each amp will see 2 ohms, he really didn't think this would be a problem with the C1's.

What a great guy to speak with is an understatement!

It looks like there will be an A-21 in the near future.

:music-rockout: :music-rockout:

 

[Towen7]

He also recommend trying to run the HCA-1000A in bridged mode (Chis also recommended this to me) and monitor the heat. Even though their website does not recommend this because each amp will see 2 ohms, he really didn't think this would be a problem with the C1's.

I may have missed it but do you have a second HCA-1000?

What amp are you planning to use for the CC and surrounds?

 

[heeman]

After having trouble with my 2 channel B&K Amp, I made a decision to run 3, HCA-1000A's. I had 3 but one had to be returned. I owned one for a couple of years and recently bought 2 from ebay for about $300.

So now I have 2. I am running the C1's with one, the surrounds with the other. I am currently running a phantom center. When the third C1 gets here I will run it from one channel of an HCA-1000A and the surrounds from 2 of the 3 channels of my other B&K 3 channel amp.

When I decide to buy the A-21, that amp will power RF and LF C1's and 1 channel of an HCA-1000A will power the center C1. I may keep the B&K for the surrounds and sell the HCA-1000A or just keep the HCA-1000A and sell the B&K.