HDtracks....... not for me.

[Huey]

I think you guys are missing the point, at least in part, with HDTracks. They are offering a better product, regardless of the physical limitations of the media. Streaming is huge out there, and there are a lot of people who can stream, although most are not looking for the best sound, just convienence.

HDTracks biggest drawback, is their price. If they have a cd for download at the same price as I can buy it in the store, it's a no brainer. I can always burn it to a cd for the car, and still have the best possible sound on the home rig where it matters.

I have bought 4 or 5 full albums from HDTracks, and everyone of them sounds great! I don't have the cd duplicates, so I can't compare, but I do have albums from the same artist and label at about the same time, and the music from hdtracks just seems a bit better. Now, if they would only come down in price!

 

[Yesfan70]

I think you guys are missing the point, at least in part, with HDTracks. They are offering a better product, regardless of the physical limitations of the media. Streaming is huge out there, and there are a lot of people who can stream, although most are not looking for the best sound, just convenience.

HDTracks biggest drawback, is their price. If they have a cd for download at the same price as I can buy it in the store, it's a no brainer. I can always burn it to a cd for the car, and still have the best possible sound on the home rig where it matters.

I have bought 4 or 5 full albums from HDTracks, and everyone of them sounds great! I don't have the cd duplicates, so I can't compare, but I do have albums from the same artist and label at about the same time, and the music from hdtracks just seems a bit better. Now, if they would only come down in price!

Price is a huge drawback for a lot of people. If HDTrack's prices were closer to what the prices are for an MP3 album on Amazon, it would be more tempting. As for better product, I agree but imo (and probably Jeff's) there's that thing about 'diminishing returns'. I don't think I'm going to dramatically hear the differences between 24bit and 16bit when you put a $3 used CD in the equation.

I do hope HDTracks thrives. I think they are going in the right direction and they give us purists something should physical media actually die out. I would just like to see something more offered for their prices (like 5.1 audio, unreleased material, etc) or a lower price.

 

[koufax65]

Lets don't forget one great source for "cheaply" sampling music of CD quality. In fact it is a CD. And what is that you say? The public library. For 50 cents to one dollar you can rent CD's. They don't have every CD available but most new releases are there for use. I have checked out many artists that I would never have but for the 50 cent price. They can be copied of course and I would be lying to say I never did. That is a debate left up to you. CD quality at a great price with zero buyers remorse.

 

[Deleted member 133]

Lets don't forget one great source for "cheaply" sampling music of CD quality. In fact it is a CD. And what is that you say? The public library. For 50 cents to one dollar you can rent CD's. They don't have every CD available but most new releases are there for use. I have checked out many artists that I would never have but for the 50 cent price. They can be copied of course and I would be lying to say I never did. That is a debate left up to you. CD quality at a great price with zero buyers remorse.

Thanks for the reminder.

A big part of my movie collection (3500+ titles) initially came from Ottawa Public Library laserdiscs. When OPL converted to the then-new DVD format they sold off their massive LD collection. I was one of the first in line. They let 25 people in to start, and no more until someone left. I snagged something like 135 titles - many of them box sets. Nearly caused a riot when I walked past the hundreds of people waiting in line four times with my arms loaded with my purchases on my way to the car. I sold 35 or so on eBay for twice the amount I paid for the whole lot.

Anyhow, back to the CD... I have borrowed (they're free - I think you can check out a dozen or so at a time) some in the past. They might be a good source for some of the classical material I'm trying to get. There's a branch literally right beside the pool that I swim at. I'll check out their collection tomorrow.

 

[Huey]

Riddle me this Batman fans, forget about bit rates, but what if they use the masters with no compression or dynamic range limitation, and the resulting files are too large for a cd? I'm not sure I could tell the difference between different bitrates as well, but I can tell when something is well done. I think at HDTracks that is their goal. I think they over emphasize the bit rate, as well as price themselves out of the market, but as audio enthusiasts, what they are doing is a move in the right direction.

 

[Flint]

I would pay extra for well mixed versions of my favorite modern artists' music. The problem is that a master track which is going to be made "loud" through the loudness war software packages out today needs to be mixed differently than one which is not put through the loudness enhancing process. So, if you can get a copy pre-loudness enhanced, it is likely to not sound quite right.

So, in order for this to work, the producer would need to make a separate master mix of the music specifically intended for full dynamic range reproduction. This is rare these days.

Back in the old days, before digital, there would often be dozens of master tapes produced for the artists, record company, producers, even the engineers made their own. They sould listen to them all over the place to see how they sounded on various systems and such, or to make sure they were 100% positive the performances were spot on perfect (they couldn't do non-destructive digital editing to clear up a single flub or strange sound). Companies like Master Disc would often use one of the non-official master tapes to make their pressings of the content, and often they sounded much better than the one the record company authorized. I have Master Disc recordings of some of my favorite albums where the songs actually are different, like on their version of Tommy where the vocal part for "Eyesight for the blind (the Hawker)" is a completely different melody and singer than on the official release.


As for bit depth (I've discussed this before) --- Science has already proven that we cannot hear any better sound than 18 bit / 88.2 kHz, no matter what the recoding is. The limitation is NOT our ears or brains - it is the analog components in the system.

- 16bit audio has a S/N of 96dB.
- 18 bit audio has a S/N of 108dB.
- 24 bit audio has a S/N of 144dB.

What is the highest S/N you've ever seen on any piece of audio gear in your life? 100dB? 108dB? What's the point of a digital format which a an order of magitude higher S/N than the components reproducing the signal? For professional recording it makes sense as that added headroom comes in really handy when the levels are unexpectedly too low or too high. It is also great for DSPs as it allows for complex processing without losing too much dynamic range. But for reproduction? Not necessary.

The same can be said for sample rate. What is the highest frequency most audio components can reproduce? 25kHz? 30kHz? Well, if the sampling rate allows for a signal as high as 40kHz to be reproduces, what's the point? You cannot hear it AND your gear cannot reproduce it.

The reason we see companies offering high resolution recordings at 24 bit depth and 96kHz or higher sampling rate is because these are the standards already used in the studios and bear which supports them is already being mass produced very affordably. It is pure overkill.

CD-Audio at 16/44.1 is more than good enough for 95% of the music being made. For the other 5% of music out there, we can get HD tracks which is overkill, but at least it is providing more than enough resolution for the music we love.

I would gladly buy lossless 16/44.1 audio online. I may even buy lossless 24/44.1 or 24/96 online, if the music justifies it.