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Hmmm? maybe an upgrade in my near future....


Active Member
I have an old Miller and Kreisel 1250THX. It is over ten years old and I think I may (want) need a new subwoofer.

I have been reading Bats thread, a couple of online reviews, and a magazine review of the HSU vtf-15h and am very impressed.

I have also looked around at the subs by Rythmik, mostly at the Rythmik FV15 and at the ubiquitous SVS PB13U

My room is damn near a completely sealed chamber. The only real exit is the equipment rack in the back of the room. Every other wall is built to isolate the room from incoming sound and from letting sound escape. Reference level is almost inaudible just outside the room.

The dimensions are pretty much....ah hell, here's the build thread on AVS.

here's the basic shape of the room...23' long, 15'6" wide in back narrowing to 14'6" on front screen wall. 9' ceiling furred to 10'.



So, I have one cable ran over from the equipment center to the front for a sub and have always intended on doing a single sub (I once flirted with an IB). So I think I will stay with a single sub...or at least two right next to each other in mono as I only have the single output ran to the front.

I am wondering if anyone has ( i know a few of you do) first hand knowledge of these in similar sized rooms, can look at the specs and see what may work best in my room, or whatever advice ya'll have for me?

Open to ideas.
It appears you've pretty well exceeded your upgrade limit for at least another year. :teasing-neener:

Great room LD.

Seriously, guys. Look at that little old sub in the front of the room. It does a fair job pressurizing, but I feel the need for more.

I am leaning toward the hsu.
A pair, flanking your center channel speaker, would be most awesome! :happy-smileygiantred:
Ya, that is a damn good looking room. I am more than a little jealous.
All three of those subs are hot items, these days. But the SVS has the least down-side to it... to me anyway. Yes, it's huge. But you have the room for it. The Hsu measures less than exceptional, once you get near 20Hz (from what I've read at audioholics and others). And a lot of movie soundtracks benefit from strength in that region. As for the FV15, servo subs are great space savers, but that is not something that you need to make any sonic sacrifices for. The SVS uses size to it's advantage, and is well accepted by both movie and music circles. It really is hard to pass up (budget allowing).

In a sealed room, the size of yours, I think you could be happy with any of those subs. Great room, by the way.
I'm most impressed by the HSU, though my experience is with 2 in the room I still think one would be awesome as well. The SVS on paper may go lower, but I don't think you'll notice. For music I think it's better than the SVS.

I still recall with great fondness the conversations that you and Towen and I had over dinner last year in Houston, and your description of your HT project. I trust all is well at your end.

The Matt in me says that anything less than four powered subs in that room would simply be inadequate but I'm prepared to tone it down to a pair of the Hsu's - based entirely on what others have been saying about them.

If you listen to those who claim that one better sub is better than two lesser subs, and if you accept that the PB13U bests the Hsu (which I tend to believe would be the case in a head-to-head showdown - but I'm biased since I own one) then go with a single PB13.

And I'm sure there's plenty more options to mull over.

Jeff Mackwood
If money isn't really a factor up to a certain extent, you simply can't go wrong with the PB13U. But having owned both, there is something to be said for the "FUN FACTOR" of the HSU (especially 2 of them). There is something about them that's hard to describe in the way that the bass overcomes you. I don't recall that feeling with the SVS, but maybe that speaks to how well the SVS does everything so effortlessly as well. I'm sure you will make the right decision when it gets down to buying time. Good luck and enjoy!
Well, my wife went and bought a whole house rainsoft water treatment getup. Of course, it's the best they sell. Won't be getting dual or single subs in the near future..... :angry-tappingfoot:

Yeah, jeff, all is splendid in my neck of the woods. We all need to get back to a great restaurant again!
I'm gonna be the downer here and say....

If I were you, and had that room, my next investment would be in sound treatment including absorption AND diffusion! That room looks awesome BUT it has some VERY straight and open walls that look like it would REALLY reflect sound.

I think you would get much more improvement in all around sound and enjoyment from that room by HEAVILY treating that room.

Razz said:
I'm gonna be the downer here and say....

If I were you, and had that room, my next investment would be in sound treatment including absorption AND diffusion! That room looks awesome BUT it has some VERY straight and open walls that look like it would REALLY reflect sound.

I think you would get much more improvement in all around sound and enjoyment from that room by HEAVILY treating that room.

lawdog2k said:
I am gonna build some stands to raise the towers about 18" to get them more in line with center of the screen but within 18" of the center channel (which I raised 6" from whats in the picture). by doing that I can try to get my 1st order and the rest of the side wall reflection points above the chair rail.

I have been dealing with Dennis Erskine on what I need to do and he is gonna run the fancy tests to tell me what I will need for acoustic treatments.

Yeah...I'm working on that. Have been since designing the room. The walls are not parallel as it seems in the pictures, but the room actually narrow toward the front like an auditorium. I have raised the center as much as I could from the pics and am designing the side speaker stands to raise the towers up about 15".

Here is some of the banter back and forth between Dennis and myself...

"The tweeters need to be even with the center of the screen and aimed slightly downward. The side surrounds and rear surrounds should be identical as should the L/C/R speakers … if you don’t have an AT screen, you cannot do that but you can mount the L/R higher as well as the center."

"The location of your front speakers needs to be decided on ... that will make a difference in the acoustic treatment strategy. Those speakers should not be stuffed into corners like that...you have a whole bunch of bad stuff going on as a result. Having said that, it can be fixed but the location of the "fixes" will be highly dependent on the location (height) of those speakers. As currently located your first treatments would be directly behind the speakers and on the side wall below the chair rail...the remainder of your treatments would be largely above the chair rail."

"Any speaker like that, needs to be on the order of 3.5 feet away from any boundary. Now, that isn't going to happen. The issue is the placement of the treatments and the impact those treatments would have on your decor at the moment. Having the speakers higher helps in many ways. Have the speakers behind an AT wall provides more freedom for less expensive treatments AND keeps the treatment all above the chair rail."

So, there has been some working on the acoustic treatment area for a while. I have been speaking with him for over a year now and hopefully the Mrs. doesn't spend all my extra money for the room......you know, Rainsoft water treatment, fencing the front yard, eying pools.....I have rubbed off on her.