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Madisound Morel Supreme "Ziv Two" speaker kit

PaulyT

Behind the Curtain
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Superstar
I don't recall anyone saying they've built this particular kit, but it's possible Flint (who is on vacation) or maybe someone else has heard them at some point... Generally I think Madisound and Morel are both well-regarded companies. And in general yeah bang-for-buck is typically good with DIY if you can do it.
 

Yesfan70

I'm famous now bitches! vvvvv
Famous
Those look pretty cool.


I think my next set of speakers will be the Odins offered by Madisound. The hardest part is deciding on the maple or rosewood cabinets.
 

Flint

Dog Faced Pony Soldier
Superstar
Yiu cannot predict how a soeaker will sound based on orice, spec sheet, brand, or even the anechoic frequency response. That's why all my reviews posted over at the S&V forum include a dozen measurements, both anechoic and in-room, and written impressions based on the same music tracks each time. Most of the serious enthusiasts have made their own cooy of my speaker auditioning CD and understand what to listen to in each track so they can compare my impressions to what they hear themselves. There is a thread about my audition CD at S&V as well... I need to copy it over here.

But... I chose the Morel Supreme tweeter for my DIY soeakers because at that time I considered it the best oerforming and best sounding direct radiating tweeter available. To make that determination I actually purchased nearly a dozen top end tweeters and measured & auditioned them myself. However, I am less impressed with Morel's Supreme Woifer, though I like the Supreme midrange. To fully enjoy the midrange yoy need a three way system with woofer along with the midrange.

I have not heard these speakers, but so much of the sound is dependent on the crossover. The best tweeters and woofers on the planet won't sound good without a great crossover. Great crossover designs are far more than expensive parts and some trendy network type. Linkwitz-Riley is not always ideak, and it is more than a calculated value. Crossovers are like gourmet food, you cand take incredible ingredients and follow a recipe to the letter, but it won't taste the same as what a brilliant chef can create. You have tweak the spices to the actual ingredients in front of you. You have to tske into account the other stuff on the plate. Etc. With crossovers something as seemingly minor as lowering the relative tweeter level by 1dB could make all the difference in the world. Sometimes shifting the woofer's f3 down by 3% can turn a good sounding midrange tone and detail int the absolute best tome and detail any has ever heard. My point is this: the crossover is the key, the most critcal factor of any loudspeaker system. If it isn't done right and to YOUR tastes, it won't matter which drivers are used. You have listen to the system to know.
 

MatthewB

Grandmaster Pimp Daddy
Famous
Flint you said at the time you considered the Morel the best tweeter, what about now and what do you like more about the new tweeter you prefer over the Morel.
 

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Famous
I would go with a kit like this but if I don't have the time, Rane AC-22 or DCX2496 is what I would use.
 

Flint

Dog Faced Pony Soldier
Superstar
I tried these, and a few others I auditioned in other speakers:

Scan-Speak ring radiator, model R2904
Seas Millenium Excel T25CF002
Morel Extreme 120

I decided early in my auditions of commercially available speakers that I vastly preferred soft domes over metal and ceramic domes and/or ribbon tweeters.
 

PaulyT

Behind the Curtain
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Superstar
CiscoKid said:
Botch said:
CiscoKid said:
a properly configured Behringer...


Not picking on you CiscoKid, but some of us have a history... ;)
What are you talking about? I've never seen it, but I've read about people using external crossovers/EQ instead of passive crossovers. I just don't know much about it. I've heard the Behringer does a really good job, too.
A number of us have external, active crossovers, that's not the issue. Botch's comment is that Behringer is not universally loved... IMHO it's designed for PA systems not home audio, and in the PA world Behringer is generally regarded as cheap crap (compared to, say, Rane). However, Flint swears by the brand, so who knows, it's never cut&dry I guess.
 

Botch

I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S!
Superstar
What Paul said. Of the four Behringer pieces I've either owned or was used in one of my bands, two were dead out of the box and the other two died within 3 weeks.
 

Flint

Dog Faced Pony Soldier
Superstar
WOW! That's awful!

I have about a dozen Behringer pieces in my home, some in the HT rig, others in the studio, and they all work perfectly. I think they have decent designs but inconsistent manufacturing quality.
 

Towen7

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
Back to the question about using an outboard crossover for a kit speaker...

If the crossover design is such an art, is there any hope that an untrained, inexperienced hobbiest with not much more than an SPL meter can hope to setup a killer DIY system?
 

Flint

Dog Faced Pony Soldier
Superstar
"If the crossover design is such an art, is there any hope that an untrained, inexperienced hobbiest with not much more than an SPL meter can hope to setup a killer DIY system?"

Sure, it will take longer and require lots of hand-holding. More importantly, with the free tools available today, one not need only rely on an SPL meter. At least using RoomEQ Wizard and free copies of TrueRTA can make a huge difference, even with a crappy microphone.
 

malsackj

Well-Known Member
Because I use Ebay and older gear purchased used I have been finding that many of the older Rane and other crossovers from the pro sound world to have a infrasonic filter that will have a 12 or 18 db slope on a high pass starting at 20 or 30 hz to allow the PA systems to keep from blowing out speakers and burning up amps. The pro audio amps will also have settings for an infrasonic filters. My old Carvin amps also have limiters for 10 30 and 50 percent. I bypass most of these on the amps. I also have the older rane AC22 running my split to my sub. The TL15-1 can get down to 32 with one port plugged and a 6 db boost at 32. This is programmed into the system with a behringer feedback suppressor. When pushing my volume up on the mains I can push the output above the 0 mark on the Behringer. This can cause distortion so I have moved the behringer to an insert on the main output that is before the faders. That way I can keep the board to 0 and work the main faders to 0 or +4 to the amps as needed. When getting the pro audio above the 0 it will start to push the pro audio amps to +4 and above at +4 the amp should be reaching full output and the compression will be starting with distortion adding.

This all pulls together into the gain staging as Sound hound and Flint have discussed.

The behringer also has a 24 db cut on 20 and 16 db cut on 25 hz on to keep the sub from overdrive and distortion. The rane provides the lowpass for 100 and below.
 

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Famous
^ Rane AC22 is all analog and laid out in roomy chassis, I was able to use soldering iron to bypass those filters. Mine is flat at top & bottom. :music-rockon:
 
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