Negotiating Purchase for THEE Musical Subwoofer…

[Vinyl]

After much serious research plus socializing with some pretty ugly hard core Audiophiles – my intentions were clear to all as to my pursuit of natural bass for two channel audio – these are not GTG events but rather one on one auditions of their systems after I was allowed in the home – I’m only interested in systems similar to mine – two channel audio only application in dedicated acoustically treated rooms with sub (s) audiophiles with Maggie’ were my main target but many combinations were auditioned with same criteria.

I treated the invitations/auditions as interviews where the audiophile opens up when asked as to how he evolved and what finally clicked - OR rather - when did you jump up and yelled - THAT’S IT! - THAT’S IT! - GODAM THAT’S IT – and was still there next morning? - I’m guilty of this so I relate.

Now, hard core Maggie fans will tend to look down on you if you haven’t ripped out and mutilated the evil stock Xover (they might not let you in) and replaced it with the sorcerous active Xover – I personally have no qualms with the stock Xover – if you want to discuss evil – let’s talk about the inferior evil glue that keeps the goods together only for so long before everything starts to sound like a flapping wounded helicopter – this is a Magnepan ploy in my opinion – repairs are good for business - don’t get me started.

In my audiophile community subs may be just as evil as the Maggie stock Xover – the brand names encountered in the audio rooms were: REL – Martin Logan – JL Audio – Velodyne DD – and Vandersteen most were stereo sub configuration and big buck systems.

Finally focused on a room with Maggie’s / Vandersteen Wq sub stereo pair - after several visits with my music and lengthy sessions/ discussions about sub integration my experiences with Hsu stereo subs, Velodyne, and no sub at all – his many tales and experiments with exotic speakers and subs and cables have been entertaining – the older gentleman and his wife are delightful – last week we had them over for dinner – nuff with bullshit – back to the heading of the thread.

I’m buying a single Vandersteen Wq – $ 1700 plus u no what – I’m negotiating with a new dealer (to me) online – trading the Vandersteen 1C – AudioSource Amp – whatever he likes etc. – expect him to come to the house pick up trade ins and make the deal – this sub is elusive – on one has stock.

Now, I’m not going to explain why this sub/Maggie combo is superior to my ears above all others that I auditioned in proper setups – except to say – this is the best sub I have ever heard for music.

Two links for the inquisitive
Review
Manual

 

[Towen7]

I'm dying to know if you have one of those "THAT'S IT!!!!" moments that lasts past the next morning.

Good luck!

 

[PaulyT]

Sounds great! Yes, I too am looking forward to your review.

 

[Barney]

I pray we get to hear you say............"thats it!"....keep us posted

 

[Vinyl]

Break-In Began This Morning

50 hours per manual - 80 hours after speaking with Vandersteen this morning is his recommendation – after that you start playing with speaker sensitivity, Q, and amplifier impedance until you find a combination that pleases – after that you can send the values to Vandersteen for permanent Xover – some users don’t bother.

First impressions are the highs may not be as irritating on some material – definitely warmer overall – perhaps a little cleaner in midrange – on bass heavy material I don’t hear a sub – more like full range speakers – all too early to really evaluate at this time .

On another note the scheme is a little different: NO on/off switch – NO auto/stanby toggle – NO volume control – left and right channels are integrated via preamp to external Xover in - with woofers/bass panel out to amps – line level connections are used for the bass channels – since I’m vertical bi-amping the tweets are connected to the amps - the woofer/bass panel are connected to the sub/amp – seems to makes sense.

 

[koufax65]

Your not married are you. Not with that set up. Very cool though.

 

[topper]

Congrats, Vinyl

Vandersteen Wq – $ 1700

If anyone deserves a "you scuk" it's you right now.
:handgestures-thumbup: , , , Enjoy!

 

[Botch]

Nice!

Are those Crown amps fan-cooled, or do they have fins in the back of the chassis? I'd be nervous about standing them on end if they're convection-cooled...

 

[Vinyl]

The setup is a temporary one until the sub has the required 80 hours break-in – the place will continue to look in disarray all of next week – or until I put everything back on the rack - the amps are convection – they will get warm but not enough to warrant concern - here’s the deal on the price – traded the Vandersteen 1C/ Audiosource Amp/One for $825 plus discount of $125 on the sub – total cash outlay $847 – not bad – in regards to my marital status – most members know that I’m on wife #3 – she’s looking kinda nervous as of late

 

[TitaniumTroy]

Vinyl, thanks for sharing your quest for pure bass. Though I have a few questions? First where did you find these Maggie diehards, Planer Asylum, Audio Circle, AVS Forum or some combination? Did you get to hear any Maggie systems with an active crossover setup, were they 2 or 3 way and what did you think of them vs passive? Any details about the various acoustic treatments you heard and saw? I am currently trying to update mine.

Did you get to or have you ever heard any dipolar subwoofers, some feel those are the best match for music with the Maggies but you trade off visceral impact and very low frequency output. Anytime you are near the Chicago area come over to Indiana and have a listen to my SVS PB2 Ultra and MG 3.6's. They are crossed over at 40hz, will have to do some tweaking this winter, phase control, para eq, maybe some Audessy eq. However I think the SVS blends very well, and sounds very natural, so does a fellow Maggie friend who also has 1.6's but with a Rythmik sub and issues with Maggie glue and QC

I did the opposite that you did with your listening test's, I just went with the best subwoofer I could afford that I could find on the net and hoped for the it all worked out. Best being what I gleamed from the old S&V site. However I have a lot of respect for the Vandersteen name, I see they make an alternate subwoofer while almost the same but is geared towards movies and being louder.

 

[DIYer]

Vinyl, couple questions.
1. What are those vertical stripes on the acoustic panels for?
2. What's with those garden hose for cables?

 

[Vinyl]

Hi Troy – Thanks for the invite – the real audiophile aficionados reside at the Asylum (I’m inquiring there) with a good number over at the Circle – I have a lot of respect for these guys on their convictions and the endless tweaking is what makes for a true audiophile – I enjoy this aspect of the hobby and its many characters usually make for a fun read and sometimes challenge my own beliefs on the subject.

On the active Xover Maggie – some of the audiophiles I visited did indeed have the mod in place – one 3.6 and the other was 1.6 – my belief on the active Xover is simple – if you’ve lived with stock Maggie for a couple of years and then replaced the stock Xover – I certainly believe one will hear the up/down improvements, especially if one bi-amps – both modded Maggie models I heard were bi-amped and did sound overall better than the average stock one usually hears – the only way I would ever consider the modification would be by a professional with great experience with Maggie and its Xovers mated with the amps used at the time – I’m technically challenged in this area – if only Magneplanar had an upgrade.

Dipolar subwoofers are a rare breed it seems – your PB2 Ultra with the 3.6 at 40 Hz should tighten/expand the overall sound - same with the Rythmik both excellent subs – you know Troy – I got fed up with traditional subwoofers over the years – subwoofers are built for HT – if you don’t hear the sub you’re not going to buy it - if you’re playing music through the HT setup and make amends it will sound pretty good to most people – most people are not audiophiles - if you're a phile you do the best you can, knowing it could be better - one can only accomplish what the hardware allows.

Now, this is the area where I get hard core and anal – I've become extremely sensitive to subwoofers and can almost always hear it - regardless of volume - at best, as slight it may be in better systems - there's certain amount of disconnect between sub/speaker – perhaps it’s the two dissimilar qualities – hard to verbalize – one thing for sure – I don’t like it.

IMHO it’s extremely hard to seamlessly blend a sub with 2 channels - the sub has to have a certain amount of finesse and refinement and not just generalize when to kick in and be heard – I’m hoping Vandersteen with his unique scheme approach to better integrate sub/speaker and the built in tools supplied like the speaker sensitivity adjustments, amp impedance controls, Q configuration, and the 80 Hz Hi-pass filter - will at least be better than anything owned to date – again, this is the best sub I’ve heard in private home sessions – time will tell – so far, it’s sounding promising - at the end of the day - I just may be diehard :shock:

 

[TitaniumTroy]

Hi Vinyl, well if you do get a chance to hear a dipole sub let me know what you think about it's performance? Sometime I need to reach out to the members of the Audio Circles open baffle section and go for a listen myself.

So Vinyl, couple more questions's why don't you have the 3.6's? Don't want to go the 3 way route or don't care for the ribbon tweeter? Also have you heard the 1.7's or 3.7's yet, I am trying to find the time to do that myself. Last question, ever heard the Magnepan Tympanni's? Their bass while not as deep as the 20 series is supposed to have more impact and sound fantastic.

 

[Vinyl]

Hey Troy - I would never buy an older model Maggie – the delam failure rate is too high – if upgrade bug hits it would be for a newer model probably the 3.7 – never heard the Tympani – very few were restored.

 

[Vinyl]

Vinyl, couple questions.
1. What are those vertical stripes on the acoustic panels for?
2. What's with those garden hose for cables?

Vertical stripes are black ribbons – aesthetics purposes only – the hoses are pipe wraps – keeps cables from catching cold – while making me feel better.

 

[Zing]

Apropos of nothing, what kind of music do you listen to most V?

 

[Botch]

– the hoses are pipe wraps – keeps cables from catching cold – while making me feel better.

Actually, keeping both cables at a stable temperature minimizes variations in electrical resistance in the cables, and keeps the phase coherence between the two channels within 0.3 parsecs of each other, with an incredible increase in clarity and soundstage.



And, while I'm already full of shit, Tim Tebow's girlfriend is cooking me waffles as we speak. 'scuse me, gotta log off now.

 

[FredtheFilmFan]

I was with you 'til you said parsec, that would be one big cable. How're the waffles?

 

[Botch]

How're the waffles?

 

[Vinyl]

Apropos of nothing, what kind of music do you listen to most V?

The collection is quite eclectic – ranging from classical to Madonna and everything in between – the wife at times will sit in with her collection – quite surprising at times – a recent example - I was sitting at computer and she started playing an unknown disc to me – from the first cut the disc sounded superior - the sound was evident enough to investigate - sure enough the DAC was reading an HDCD disc called Spaccanapoli - something that I probably wouldn’t have bought – sometimes I don’t listen for weeks on end – I have to be in the mood.