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Reel to Reel is the New Vinyl

JeffMackwood said:
It wowed me. And my heart's a flutter.

Jeff

I hate the effects of wow and flutter. I have a sense of absolute pitch and am sensitive to speed irregularities. Reel to reel decks generally are less prone to that compared to cassette and 8-track decks.
 
I remember the plate I had at this Mexican restaurant one time.



Wow and flutter indeed, followed by a few pinch rollers


Too much??


EDIT:Whoops...forgot the emoticon. :happy-smileygiantred:
 
rammisframmis said:
JeffMackwood said:
It's getting so that a fellow can't do satire without using an emoticon!

Jeff

ps. Other than live studio / home recording I'm having reel trouble figuring out a roll for R2R.

Then perhaps someone else might find my answer useful :(

It made me think back to when you could do "high speed dubbing" on double cassette decks from the Eighties. Cassette to cassette copies were almost always bad. For a variety of reasons I already suspect. But now I can add the negative effects of high speed copying to the list, assuming much of the same principles about R2R dubbing apply to cassette.
 
The degredatikn of quality from tranfsers is why the record labels didnt go comlletely insane on dubbers and mix tapes. They knew people would go buy their music if they wanted good quality. They knew the sound of a tape would degrade over time regardless, so they were assured repeat buyers.

This is why digital cloning was such a hit on their earnings and damn near ruined the entire music economy.
 
Kazaam said:
rammisframmis said:
JeffMackwood said:
It's getting so that a fellow can't do satire without using an emoticon!

Jeff

ps. Other than live studio / home recording I'm having reel trouble figuring out a roll for R2R.

Then perhaps someone else might find my answer useful :(

It made me think back to when you could do "high speed dubbing" on double cassette decks from the Eighties. Cassette to cassette copies were almost always bad. For a variety of reasons I already suspect. But now I can add the negative effects of high speed copying to the list, assuming much of the same principles about R2R dubbing apply to cassette.

When you consider that if you double the dubbing speed, 10kHz becomes 20kHz, then NO cassette dub will have anything useful in the dub above perhaps 8kHz. That in addition to the noise from the super narrow cassette tracks, guarantees a crappy sounding copy. The sound quality is probably OK for the masses who only want their "tunes" for the car however.

Honestly, even two track stereo tape (with wide tracks) at 15ips is only good for one dubbing generation before the quality starts to take an obvious hit. What analog tape is good for these days is as a first generation mixdown medium from digital originals residing on a digital audio workstation. The tape adds a nice layer of "distortion" from tape saturation effects which helps take the sterility edge from the digital originals, much like vinyl does (although the distortion added is different between tape and vinyl, but that's probably getting more technical than most people here give a shit about).
 
rammisframmis said:
The tape adds a nice layer of "distortion" from tape saturation effects which helps take the sterility edge from the digital originals, much like vinyl does (although the distortion added is different between tape and vinyl, but that's probably getting more technical than most people here give a shit about).
Inquiry (imagine that spoken in a Data-like voice): could this not be simulated digitally? Thus achieving the desired sound and preserving the convenience features of digital?

Jeff
 
JeffMackwood said:
rammisframmis said:
The tape adds a nice layer of "distortion" from tape saturation effects which helps take the sterility edge from the digital originals, much like vinyl does (although the distortion added is different between tape and vinyl, but that's probably getting more technical than most people here give a shit about).
Inquiry (imagine that spoken in a Data-like voice): could this not be simulated digitally? Thus achieving the desired sound and preserving the convenience features of digital?

Jeff
There are Pro-Tools plug-ins that do exactly this.
And the "distortion" is actually a natural compression, which works especially nicely on drums.
 
Its been my experience that no digital plug-in can really match the sound of something like analog tape or a particular tube amp or guitar distortion or classic analog compressor any closer than "sort of". The variables are just far, far too complex in the real world to model all the possible scenarios. For instance with tape; what kind of tape (they all act differently to some extent, and they don't all sound the same), what bias level is being simulated as being used (or abused) for that particular tape? what tape speed? how is the recording and playback EQ set for the "simulated" tape machine (alignment can change everything) is the tape machine half-track? full-track? quarter track? cassette? what type of magnetic heads (their faces, their impedances) are being simulated-again this can change the sound character, especially at low frequencies. And what type of electronics are following those heads? tube? transistor? ICs? What about a tape machine which doesn't have perfectly clean speed, i.e. wow and flutter? How about scrape flutter? Is modulation noise which happens with real tape addressed (never in my experience)?

Really, just about anything that exists in the real world analog realm cannot be -exactly- simulated with the present state of the art in computing, especially a plug-in which is limited by its host computer and sound card DSP having to share resources with all the other processes taking place in a DAW.

For some of my uses, plug-ins might get "close enough" for something buried in an overall mix, and depending on the music, but unfortunately, the real world is just too complex to model exactly (real-world concert hall reverb is another example that I've never heard being exactly duplicated, especially if for instance a violin soloist is moving somewhat, thus projecting the directional sound from the instrument in subtle ways in different directions - artificial reverb would totally miss this interaction with the environment and real air).
 
Yesfan70 said:
I remember the plate I had at this Mexican restaurant one time.



Wow and flutter indeed, followed by a few pinch rollers


Too much??


EDIT:Whoops...forgot the emoticon. :happy-smileygiantred:

:laughing-rolling:
SMPL?
 
Thanks nice read.

I used my Teac RTR with the Marantz SD-6000 cassette to do half or quarter speed edits in creating the sound tracks for the Rythmic Gymnastics. That has all been moved into digital since 2000.

Half speed copies have there problems also. Along with the effects of if any Dolby or DBX was used.
 
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