Speaker Placement Question

[Haywood]

Well, my room is less than ideal no matter what I do. The current arrangement is even bad with my dipoles, due to forced proximity with the rear wall. I'm looking for the least sucky option to maximize my system's performance for the next few years.

 

[Towen7]

I sincerely think you already have the least sucky set-up. From this point on you're just stacking up more-and-more compromises.

 

[Flint]

Okay... so I have been speaking to some of my brilliant theater audio engineers about your situation (gave me a reason to call and catch up with old friends) and they came to the same conclusion, which I thought was brilliant.

They suggested you do a 6.1 signal setup (side surrounds and mono rear surround) and place three to four speakers on the floor behind the couch (assuming you can pull the couch out the requisite inches to allow for them). They said to put an EQ on the rear floor speakers to make the general tone balanced with the others (cut the bass and boost the treble) and tune the setup well.

The side surrounds should be placed to the side aimed directly at the listeners about a foot to two feet above the heads of the seated listeners.

 

[Towen7]

Why 6 instead of 7 channels if you're suggesting multiple speakers for each rear surround channel? Would dipoles not do the same thing?

 

[Flint]

Why 6 instead of 7 channels if you're suggesting multiple speakers for each rear surround channel?

Because he is sitting so close to the speakers. That simple. How can you hear the other of the channel if the speaker playing it is 4dB to 6dB SPL softer due to being farther away. Same thing as having two speakers playing stereo under the eaves of the porch and sitting directly underneath one of them.

 

[Zing]

How can you hear the other of the channel if the speaker playing it is 4dB to 6dB SPL softer due to being farther away.

What am I missing here? The purpose of calibration is to achieve the same SPL at the listening position from all speakers. So what if one speaker is just a few inches away and others are several feet away?

You've mentioned the importance of tuning it well more than once. I assumed by 'tune' you were referring to calibration.

Have I missed something?

 

[Botch]

Same thing as having two speakers playing stereo under the eaves of the porch and sitting directly underneath one of them.

This is a constant, irritating condition in most dentist offices, grocery stores, and restaurants. Set the damn system up for mono, please?!?!?

 

[Zing]

Scott, are you ready for some serious outside-the-box thinking?

Put one of your dipole speakers on each of the shelving units flanking your TV and wire both of them out-of-phase. While seated on the sofa, their sound will seemingly come from behind and above you.

 

[Flint]

How can you hear the other of the channel if the speaker playing it is 4dB to 6dB SPL softer due to being farther away.

What am I missing here? The purpose of calibration is to achieve the same SPL at the listening position from all speakers. So what if one speaker is just a few inches away and others are several feet away?

You've mentioned the importance of tuning it well more than once. I assumed by 'tune' you were referring to calibration.

Have I missed something?

Repeatedly Haywood has said he cannot setup the rig for a single listener in the perfect position. So...

I focused the solution, specifically, on the idea that there is not a focus point for perfect tuning.

 

[Haywood]

Okay... so I have been speaking to some of my brilliant theater audio engineers about your situation (gave me a reason to call and catch up with old friends) and they came to the same conclusion, which I thought was brilliant.

They suggested you do a 6.1 signal setup (side surrounds and mono rear surround) and place three to four speakers on the floor behind the couch (assuming you can pull the couch out the requisite inches to allow for them). They said to put an EQ on the rear floor speakers to make the general tone balanced with the others (cut the bass and boost the treble) and tune the setup well.

The side surrounds should be placed to the side aimed directly at the listeners about a foot to two feet above the heads of the seated listeners.

Wow. Thanks for thinking about this. I've got a few questions.

Why are the speakers on the floor and how are they oriented?
Would it be possible to accomplish a similar effect with wall mounted speakers with less need for EQ?
If I go for a more conventional arrangement, wouldn't putting both rear speakers on the same channel solve a lot of my problem?

One idea I've been tossing around is using the dipoles in the back and putting them both on the same channel. The primary listening positions are the chaise on the right and the chaise on the left. Those are the places people sit the most. I was thinking that I could center one dipole on each chaise, putting the people on the chaise in the null. This couch is ten feet long, so that would put the rear speakers eight feet apart. The principle downside is that keeping them close to ear level puts the drivers less than two feet away from the listener's head. That's why I was leaning toward mounting them a bit higher on the wall and mounting the side surrounds higher as well to keep things somewhat consistent.

I know I cannot get accurate channel steering back there. What I'm after is a sense of envelopment and a sense of sound coming from the back rather than only from the sides. I am not opposed to non-traditional setups if I can make them work in my space, budget and WAF limitations.

 

[Flint]

1) On the floor to disperse the sound and get them away from your ears so you cannot easily pinpoint the sound.
2) The would be aimed directly upward towards the ceiling.
3) It would not be the same if they are mounted on the wall above the couch. In fact, it wouldn't accomplish the goals of the setup at all and defeat the whole point of the recommendation.
4) Running a 6.1 setup (rather than a 7.1 setup) is my recommendation regardless (in this case).

The goal of each of my recommendations has been the to make a non-directional, dispersed, wall of sound which to you ears seems to be coming from all around the area behind your head - as if you are in a proper movie theater. The last recommendation of placing speakers on the floor behind the couch would be the most enveloping setup.

 

[Huey]

I know nothing of these, so I don't know if it could be made to work, but what about using a soundbar, but only in reverse? I don't know how customizable a soundbar is, but it might be an easy and clean solution.

 

[Botch]

Seek out four or five Pontiac Fieros in your local junkyards, pull these:

...and adapt them to an old track-lighting system, bolted behind the sofa. :geek:

 

[Randy]

I know nothing of these, so I don't know if it could be made to work, but what about using a soundbar, but only in reverse? I don't know how customizable a soundbar is, but it might be an easy and clean solution.

That may be a super simple solution to achieve Flint's recommendation, especially if he can find one that is closely timber matched to his others.

I think Flint's recommendation makes sense. It may be hard to pull off, but it should achieve the goals of an immersive and consistent soundfield.

Damn difficult rooms.

 

[Randy]

Seek out four or five Pontiac Fieros in your local junkyards, pull these:

...and adapt them to an old track-lighting system, bolted behind the sofa. :geek:

I completely forgot about the speakers in th headrest and I owned 2 Fieros. Yes, I just admitted that publicly.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program. Sorry for the hijack.

 

[Flint]

I know nothing of these, so I don't know if it could be made to work, but what about using a soundbar, but only in reverse? I don't know how customizable a soundbar is, but it might be an easy and clean solution.

That may be a super simple solution to achieve Flint's recommendation, especially if he can find one that is closely timber matched to his others.

I think Flint's recommendation makes sense. It may be hard to pull off, but it should achieve the goals of an immersive and consistent soundfield.

Damn difficult rooms.

Placement acoustics alone will throw any timber matching out the window. An EQ can at least get the general tonality to seem similar and provide a close-enough blending of the speakers.

 

[Zing]

...I owned 2 Fieros.

What do you drive now, a Miata? :violence-torch:

 

[Flint]

^^^^ Hahahahahaha!!!!!^^^^

 

[Botch]

I would totally drive a Miata, if I'd fit in one.

 

[Randy]

...I owned 2 Fieros.

What do you drive now, a Miata? :violence-torch:

No, I drive a truck! I drive a DAMN MAN SIZED TRUCK! From boy to man my friend, from boy to man!

LOL, I really kind of liked my Fieros.