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Strange case of Sorbothane turning into Black Tar

Flint

Prodigal Son
Superstar
Years ago I built 7 speaker cabinets with customized mid-woofers and what was the best soft dome tweeter on the market at the time. One detail in the design I was very proud of and which resulted in good improvement in the sound was my brilliant idea to make gaskets for all of the drivers from 1/4" thick Sorbothane - a very soft visco-elastic polymer. The material isolated the drivers from the cabinets and from each other and absorbed energy from the speaker frame. The result was a much improved transient response and more detail when reproducing very complex and dense passages in music. I thought I was a genius and bragged to anyone who would listen that I had discovered a brilliant solution to increasing the resolution of already state of the art transducers installed in acoustically ideal enclosures.

Well... that was then.

After approximately 7 years, while I was spending more than half my life in a tiny apartment in Virginia for my hob there, I noticed some deformation on the fronts of my amazing speakers. I chose to ignore it because I assumed it was nothing, or perhaps (I thought) it was flaws in the original finish I hadn't paid attention to before. I was also very busy and had relationship issues with my then wife, so dealing with some strange sights on my speakers seemed a low priority at that time.

Then I found myself alone at home after a separation and I started making the house my own. One part of that was restoring my HT to it's original glory and start watching movies and listening to music MUCH more often. That's when I realized what I was seeing was a black, sticky, goo oozing out of the speaker cut-outs and slowly flowing down the fronts of my speakers. It was gross, nasty, and almost impossible to get off my fingers if I made the terrible mistake of touching it. I assumed it was a sign the Sorbothane gaskets were failing, so I pulled out one of the woofers to see what I could do to remedy the problem.

Remedy the problem.

Remedy...

Oh crap... behind the driver I saw that every ounce of the gasket has dissolved entirely into that black tar-like goo. It had flowed into the rear of the woofer and coated the bottom of the back side of the frame, surround, and cone. Because it had solvent properties the rubber surround was no longer adhered to the frame and, well, the woofer was ruined. I tried various solvents to clean the goo, but only Alcohol seemed to help as it would thin the goo so I could wipe it off, little by little, with a paper towel. It was a mess, and I was devastated.

Once I realized what was going on, I started looking at the other speakers where I had used sorbothane gaskets, and that was every single one of my hand-built speakers in my 7 channel system. It became clear that ALL of them were in the same condition, though some has oozed more out of the front than others.

I cried. I got angry, I wracked my brain as to how this could happen. I couldn't understand any of it.

Sorbothane is supposed to be very reliable and is known to be temperature and chemically stable. Hmmm...

Well, I knew I couldn't fix these speakers, so I went through months of emotions resulting in a desire to make new speakers with new technologies, but without Sorbothane. This time I am using Silicone Rubber which is supposed to be even more chemically stable.

So, what caused the Sorbothane to turn into goo?

Well, it was noticed on this forum last week in a photo of a GTG and Pauly suggested that perhaps some airborne chemical, like a cleaner or aerosol, might have caused it to dissolve spontaneously. I mean, ALL of gaskets failed during the same period. I began digging through my memory of life in my home and had settled on the idea that perhaps the one time my A/C failed and some refrigerant leaked into the house was likely the culprit. While not proven, it seemed likely and I have lived with that theory as if it were true until today.

What happened today?

I am removing all the old gear and speakers from my HT to make room from installing my new speakers as a two channel system and when I took the main stereo speakers off the bass bins they were stack upon, I discovered I had used multiple layers of the same Sorbothane sheets, also cut by me and the same tools as the gaskets, in perfect condition. I had isolated the upper cabinets from the lower with layers of the very stuff which spontaneously melted into the very Bile of Satan.

What?

Even the portion of the Sorbothane under the speakers which came into contact with the oozing goo from the gaskets is in perfect condition. It just has the goo stuck to it, no damage.

What?

So, here I am struggling again with why my Sorbothane failed.
 
Sorbothane is it's own company,
https://www.sorbothane.com/

According to the manufacturer, they don't recommend exposure to plastic solvents, gasoline, or alcohol. That said, I don't think this is an exposure thing since the sheets under the cabinets are still fine. So, anything the gaskets were exposed to also came into contact with the sheets under the cabinets.

One of the reasons I was so emotional about this failure was that the mid-woofers were custom built to my specs by Skaaning. They were amazing, but they are dead now and the company no longer exists, or at least they no longer to small batch custom production. The founder died this year.
 
Is it possible that the gaskets being used to dampen high frequencies caused them to overheat?
 
Is it possible that the gaskets being used to dampen high frequencies caused them to overheat?

I seriously doubt it. The amount of energy applied to them was never remotely close to the use models this material is used for all the time. Also, my speakers weren't operating much during the time the stuff failed, I was out of town most of the time and when I was here my angry ex-wife refused to give me the peace to sit down and listen. Also, this stuff is rated to over 170 degrees F.
 
Were the speaker cabinets sealed? If it wasn’t exposure to something on the outside of the cabinet could it be something inside the cabinet? Crossover components out gassing a trace amount of “something”? I’m grasping at straws here.
 
Were the speaker cabinets sealed? If it wasn’t exposure to something on the outside of the cabinet could it be something inside the cabinet? Crossover components out gassing a trace amount of “something”? I’m grasping at straws here.

I hear ya.

The left and right speakers were sealed. The center and surround speakers were vented. All failed.

Inside the cabinets were wire, dried wood glue (PVA), and Acoustistuff polyester fiber stuffing. Nothing else.
 
That’s really odd. I have sorbothane pads under my bookshelf speakers on stands in my office. Will have to keep an eye out for this bile.
 
This seems like an obvious thing to do, but did you talk directly to the company who made the sorbothane? I would think they would know way more specifically about their product than the collective brain trust here.
 
This seems like an obvious thing to do, but did you talk directly to the company who made the sorbothane? I would think they would know way more specifically about their product than the collective brain trust here.

Now that's thinking like an engineer and not a philosopher!

I did speak to them when I chose to use the stuff, and they saw no reason it wouldn't work perfectly essentially forever.

This is catharsis for me.

At this point, I kinda enjoy the conversation because the speakers are ruined and will eventually be recycled or sent to the landfill. I am also not planning future applications for the offending material. Calling the manufacturer and discussing my spilt milk feels like a waste of their time. But, I may resort to that at some point.
 
Random thoughts...

Call your insurance agent. Could fall under some unused esoteric clause in your home owner's policy.

The result of proximity to magnetic field? Ever-so-small induced electrical current? What are the electrical / conductive properties of sorbothane? (Only that which was coupled to drivers failed. Same batch product used between cabinets did not. Since you've ruled out broad airborne chemical attack, that leaves what? Temperature. Vibration. What else?)

Not taking it up directly with the manufacturer of sorbothame is dumb. Heck, I bet they'd pay you what you spent on your speakers to get their hands on the failed product for testing / research. At the very least to prevent a potential massive class action lawsuit if after X number of years their product turns to goo and destroys all in its path (under whatever conditions they now need to know.) They might even pay you a dump truck full of cash just to shut up about it and sign an NDA. So what say you backstep a bit and have PaulyT delete this thread and all associated references to it so that you can land that windfall! My price / share for this advice is the usual: a bottle of single malt scotch - if it pans out for you - do be consumed together as part of a ceremony of my creation. You in?

Jeff
 
That is one of the strangest things I've ever seen. Let me know before you toss them. There are a few things I would like to try. Even if I can only save a few, it's better than nothing.
 
Was there something in the material the driver manufacturer used on the contact points of the back of the driver frame and the Sorbothame.

Was the laquer dry and cured properly before you installed the sorbothame gaskets?
 
Was there something in the material the driver manufacturer used on the contact points of the back of the driver frame and the Sorbothame.

Was the laquer dry and cured properly before you installed the sorbothame gaskets?

1) It was bare metal on the rear of the speaker frame.
2) The lacquer was coated with polyurethane and cured. The sorbothane the cabinets were resting on was in direct contact with the lcquer/polyurethane.
 
Could vibration cause it to lose its integrity like an oobleck solution?
Only REALLY smart people have so far suggested vibration as a cause. But I should have also used a big word like thixotropic - the way ketchup behaves, making you need to smack the bottle to get it to run.

:)
 
Sorbothane is designed and marketed specifically for vibration absorption applications. It is the most effective commercial material for vibration control. I chose it for that specific reason. I would be shocked to learn that vibration would cause this material to fail.
 
Call the manufacturer and then follow up with sending them pictures of the damaged speakers.

You never know...............

Do you have receipts from when you bought the material?
 
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