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Subwoofer ideas for my future theater

lakedmb

Well-Known Member
Ok, so the more I look into the subs the more confused I become about the whole thing.

The deadline to purchase the Danley is in September, which means that I have a until then to make a decision about purchasing it. My budget for a sub is $2000 and less is definitely better. My room will be 4000 cu. ft. and sealed. Dimensions are 16x25x10.

After some research I am not sure what would be the best decision. I have two SVS 12" subs that I can use to build my own, which is always an option, though right now it is my least favorite option. I am hoping to use those subs to build two small sealed subs for two other locations in my house.

One idea that keeps bouncing around in my head is to create a similar setup to SoundHound with 18" subs, smaller room so less subs I would think. Space isn't a big concern since this room will be dedicated to just the theater. The low frequencies from his setup were much smoother and fuller than the pair of Danley's I heard two weeks ago.

I have read about building a sub that should perform comparatively with the Danley using 18" drivers, something like the Maelstrom and LTS design(?).

I have also thought about a pair of HSU's if I can find a pair used.

Another idea is a used SVS PB13 Ultra, not sure how the output compares to other options.

Some people have mentioned an IB design, but I don't believe it would work well in this situation. I have a room next to the theater room, but is only half the size and will be used as a workshop.

I'm sure that I will think of more ideas and questions along the way.

Thanks.
 

Flint

Dog Faced Pony Soldier
Superstar
Build an Infinite Baffle Sub with four 18" woofers and one killer amp. Should fit your budget and play louder, deeper, cleaner and with greater dynamics than anything else you'll ever find for $2000.
 

lakedmb

Well-Known Member
Would the space available be too small? I thought ideally you want two equal size rooms.
 

Alien

Active Member
lakedmb said:
Would the space available be too small? I thought ideally you want two equal size rooms.

When comparing one IB sub to another the most optimal one will usually have the larger baffle. Having it smaller does not always mean that you won't still have fantastic sound.

But when comparing the IB sub with the smaller baffle to a cabinet type sub the IB sub is still the better choice.

http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/
 

lakedmb

Well-Known Member
Ok, I have read over that article and am a little confused with one thing. Regarding placement I only have one choice for an IB sub. The placement would be the front side wall on the left hand side. It seems like a front or ceiling placement is recommended. Would using the front side wall have a negative impact?
 

Alien

Active Member
It's probable because of the asymmetry issue combined with structure...With an IB sub there is always a risk of vibration in the structure...if it were off to one side of course you'd hate it. Of course this isn't as much an issue with cabinet subs since they are more isolated from the structure they occupy. So I think by design you should be likely able to troubleshoot the issue. My guess is that by not having any part of the structure (wall) be in direct contact with the drivers, but the drivers be more like a free-standing component with a non-contact to structure entryway for the sound to enter the room then it could work well.
 

Flint

Dog Faced Pony Soldier
Superstar
I disagree. A good IB sub will be more difficult to place than a traditional box sub as the THD is significantly lower and it can blend into the overall sound more naturally. Except in very rare instances where the installer acted foolishly have I ever heard or heard of an IB sub not being more "invisible" to the ears in terms of locating and such.

If your main speakers are capable of being set with a crossover as low as (or lower than) 60Hz, the ability to tell where the sub is located is reduced.

The room vibrating will be an issue with any sub with high output in the output below 30Hz. If you buy a killer sub from, say, SVS or Hsu, the room will rattle almost as much as with a good IB subwoofer. With the IB sub the THD will be much lower and the "location" of the sub will be more hidden.
 

lakedmb

Well-Known Member
Will placement become an issue? My only option for an IB sub would be the front of the left side wall.
 

lakedmb

Well-Known Member
Hey Flint, since you have been to soundhounds and heard his setup, how does his sub setup compare with an IB setup? I am slightly hesitant to do an IB since I would have to do a lot of work to patch the wall if we were to move. Also, it makes me nervous that the other room is going to be a workshop.
 

Flint

Dog Faced Pony Soldier
Superstar
Soundhound's subs are amazing and work extremely well. They are also not exactly cheap. If you want to go that route and use two or four large high end PA subs which have been retuned for high fidelity use and EQed properly, then I am sure it will work great. You could also get stereo bass, which can be amazing with the right source content.

IB Subs are similar in that they offer low THD, high output, and when setup and tuned properly, blend with the main speakers perfectly. I don't think placement will be an issue for you. Clean bass below 60Hz is hard for 95% of the population to locate - it is omnidirectional and only a few folk in the world will be able to tell where the sub is located by listening.

As for the workshop, you can put a couple of layers of poly quilt batting over the backs of the subs to protect them.
 

PaulyT

Behind the Curtain
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Superstar
Flint said:
I disagree. A good IB sub will be more difficult to place than a traditional box sub as the THD is significantly lower and it can blend into the overall sound more naturally. Except in very rare instances where the installer acted foolishly have I ever heard or heard of an IB sub not being more "invisible" to the ears in terms of locating and such.

Wait, is that a typo? You seem to be saying the opposite (of what I've highlighted).
 

Alien

Active Member
PaulyT said:
Flint said:
I disagree. A good IB sub will be more difficult to place than a traditional box sub as the THD is significantly lower and it can blend into the overall sound more naturally. Except in very rare instances where the installer acted foolishly have I ever heard or heard of an IB sub not being more "invisible" to the ears in terms of locating and such.

Wait, is that a typo? You seem to be saying the opposite (of what I've highlighted).

That's what I thought...but actually I think he's stating it in reference to my idea about a non-centered IB placement being more able to be localized due to structure vibration of what it's mounted to. If I'm right he's saying that's not the true culprit of that issue but the lack of THD and phase. Err...maybe it is a typo because that seems like a paradox to subs. But anyways I get it...the local vibration wouldn't be an issue with the IB sub unless you messed up the installation.
 

Flint

Dog Faced Pony Soldier
Superstar
It was a typo...

A good IB sub will be no more difficult to place than a traditional box sub
 

Alien

Active Member
Except for having to move it LOL. No problem vacuuming around it and hey, no worries about bad company trying to use it as an end table or seat!
 

Flint

Dog Faced Pony Soldier
Superstar
One of my favorite aspects of a good IB sub is that not only does is disappear into the music, it disappears in the room. Most people have no idea I have a sub at all, but the sound is amazing.
 

Alien

Active Member
I much appreciate this thread as I had the same question about placement...I suppose having it centrally located would give more room for error but now I know I CAN have one off to the side, near my front corner. As a matter of fact that entire wall is wide open except for my acoustic panels (which I think Flint you might be impressed) top to bottom with the same volume available end to end. It's open to the remainder of the entire basement.
 

MatthewB

Grandmaster Pimp Daddy
Famous
Flint said:
One of my favorite aspects of a good IB sub is that not only does is disappear into the music, it disappears in the room. Most people have no idea I have a sub at all, but the sound is amazing.


Flint, I and others who were at your GTG can honestly say, that we all knew you had subs and at times they nearly knocked the wind out of your chest. But you are correct in the correct listening environment (your treated room) and with great music, it blended seamlessly while at other times, HOLY MOTHER F-ING BEJEESUS!!!!!
 

Flint

Dog Faced Pony Soldier
Superstar
Matt, if you didn't know the technical details of my system you would have assumed all that bass was coming from my main speakers. In fact, you were consciously trying to test my IB sub because you knew about it.
 

lakedmb

Well-Known Member
Would 18" or 15" subs be recommended? I may be able to fit 15" subs between studs but I would need to make some adjustments with 18"
 

Flint

Dog Faced Pony Soldier
Superstar
18" woofers will fit between 16" studs if you build a manifold, which I recommend based on your descriptions of the space.
 
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