Turntable $300-$600

[lakedmb]

Ok, so now that things seem to be slowing down in my life some, I've finally setup my office with an old Pioneer SX-770 stereo receiver and my Klipsch Heresy's. I'm now starting to peek at turntables, but I have zero knowledge on the topic. My first instinct was the Pro-Ject Debut III, thought that may be due to how much advertising they do than anything else.

So, I'm curious if anyone has any recommendations for a nice quality turntable with only a budget of $300-$600?

Thanks!

 

[Deleted member 133]

While I own two turntables (and multiple cartridges / accessories etc.) I really have to ask: why a turntable? If you have a collection of vinyl from decades ago but nothing to play it with, that's a great answer and forget I asked the question. But otherwise... I see no good reason to want one (including the now-trendy "I really want to be hip and get into vinyl.")

Some suggestions: if you are thinking about the Pro-Ject you should also consider the Rega RP1. Only issue with these is that you plan to use it with an old Pioneer SX-770, whose phono stage was probably nothing to write home about (from what I can see it has two phono inputs: one for ceramic cartridges and the other for "magnetic" cartridges. I assume the latter means MM). Just not sure how that would work out.

On that score you could consider something that comes with its own built-in phono pre-amp so that you can plug it directly into the AUX input of the receiver. I imagine something like the Teac TN-300 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TH0YHO4?gwSec=1&redirect=true&ref_=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i12 would be great - again especially because of your set-up / planned use.

This is a completely different question if you are looking for a serious dedicated listening environment with different electronics etc. But even then I'd have to ask "really?"

Jeff

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

The Pro-ject is a good choice. Just make sure you get a good cartridge.

Why a turntable? Because vinyl is much more of an involving experience (album art etc), and it absolutely does add euphonic colorations which counter the increasingly strident "digital-compressed" sound we get nowadays. Also, by its nature, vinyl CAN'T be compressed as much as a digital file since no cartridge could track this extreme compression. This means that, generally, vinyl releases are compressed less than their digital file equivalents.

 

[lakedmb]

Why vinyl? This really sums it up for me.

Why a turntable? Because vinyl is much more of an involving experience (album art etc), and it absolutely does add euphonic colorations which counter the increasingly strident "digital-compressed" sound we get nowadays.

When I've visited rammisframmis (soundhound) in the past, listening to some of his albums was such an amazing experience. While I may never recreate the quality of his system, I do think that listening to music on vinyl is more about the experience than popping in a CD or selecting a file to listen to.

Any recommendations on cartridges?

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Just as a rough generalization, I would expect to pay roughly up to half as much as the turntable for a cartridge which mates well. The Turntable Doctor I think has some pre-configured deals.

Get a good anti-static brush, and keep your vinyl absolutely clean. When I was a SoundPuppy in grade school, I got a kick out of an old-lady-type English teacher who would wipe records on her dress (on her ass specifically) before playing them. Maybe she was on to something which I was unable to comprehend at the time, but I doubt it! :scared-yipes:

On a pure "enjoyment" level, playing digital files is surely convenient. But playing a vinyl record is an _experience_ which I actually sit in the sweet spot to enjoy. There IS a difference on the engagement level. When I demo my room nowadays, I use vinyl.

Also, GOOD vinyl is absolutely much better than it was when it was mainstream and mass produced - frankly, much of it was junk from recycled (re-ground) vinyl. The prevalence of surface noise, ticks and pops is much less now on _good_ pressings. I sometimes buy 45 RPM versions of albums, and the experience is very much akin to the experience I have had when listening to a 30ips 1/2" stereo master tape - much above the average quality. Much of what I buy is from Acoustic Sounds.

 

[Yesfan70]

While I own two turntables (and multiple cartridges / accessories etc.) I really have to ask: why a turntable? If you have a collection of vinyl from decades ago but nothing to play it with, that's a great answer and forget I asked the question. But otherwise... I see no good reason to want one (including the now-trendy "I really want to be hip and get into vinyl.")

Why vinyl? Why two turntables? Isn't one good enough? One of my good friend's daughter is getting into vinyl for the reasons Rammis posted......It's more engaging to her. She's becoming more like her old man in preferring to spin some tunes and sit and be totally immersed in the music. The thrill of hitting the record stores and thumbing through the vast collections to see what's new to listen.



I'm not a big vinyl junkie like some of you all here are, but I do have a turntable and a few records on hand. I mostly like the idea of possibly finding something that's never made a CD release (Peter King anybody??), so those rare gems is why I hold on to mine (a Technics....don't laugh.)

 

[Zing]

(a Technics....don't laugh.)

Why laugh? Panasonic is relaunching the Technics turntable next year.

 

[Botch]

There are so many shocking statements on this thread I need to sleep on it before addressing them, if I do at all. Wow!

I would think a great turntable deal could be found on the used market right now, but I haven't looked for one in decades so I may be up in the night. Had a Technics here too for many years, when my CD case fell off the wall and pulverized it, got an inexpensive Yamaha which I still use. Shure V15 Type 5 cartridge.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Let's put it this way; I do not view the master tape as it came from the recording studio as the be-all and end-all of what an album should sound like - the way a release sounds goes all the way down to how it is heard (or "distorted") by the home playback equipment, or ear buds, or individual hearing characteristics/biases or whatever. Holding the "master tape" up as the ultimate standard is fallacy in my opinion. On the radio, you hear a very different conception of the master tape sound because of various compression and phase manipulation which takes place to maximize signal strength and penetration. On computer desktop speakers, quite another sound. On my Altec A7-s quite another (but we all know that mine is the almighty-blessed CORRECT sound, and all others are but a pale imitation which have no validity in fact!) :music-rockout:

Actually, all releases go through what is called a "mastering" step, which originally was the person who cut the laquer used for mass distribution of discs. Now, it is the phase where the sound is equalized, compressed and otherwise manipulated according to what the mastering engineer thinks is "right", based on his or her tastes, credibility, etc in the recording industry. What comes out of this is NOT the master tape's original sound.

Our choice of speakers influences the way an album sounds to a very significant degree; horns, dynamic drivers, electrostatics, planar magnetics (Maggies)???? They all sound worlds apart, and they are all totally valid (yet A-7 horns are the only CORRECT sound). :music-rockout:

Saying one or the other is the "right" sound, the "sound of the master" is silly, to say the least (unless A7s - see above). :music-rockout:

As I am writing this, I'm listening to a 45 RPM vinyl release of the classic Stan Getz jazz album "Jazz Samba". The sound is pure silk. Utterly organic. Unbelievably musical.

It is the "RIGHT" sound, because it pleases me.

Yet it sounds NOTHING like the master tape, or the CD for that matter.

But I enjoy it magnitudes more.

YMMV

 

[Deleted member 133]

Gents,

I've got to go back to the OP. My assumption was it was for non-critical listening ("my office") using an old receiver and a pair of Heresies. Not for a listening-only room like SH's. (Which, by the way, makes my top three list of rooms that I've listened in; the others being mine and Flint's.) That implied, perhaps wrongly, a "I want to listen to something while I'm working - in my office" arrangement. Hence my "why vinyl?" question / comment - with the caveat that perhaps the music to be listened to was already on vinyl.

I stand by that.

In all other cases, including critical listening, it all comes down to taste: for a given recording which format sounds better to you. For me, 99%+ of the time it's not vinyl.

Jeff

ps. Why two turntables? I said I own two. One is hooked up in my main HT (I've previously described how / why / what for etc.) and the other is out on long-term loan, as I do with a lot of my surplus gear, to a friend's son, along with an old Yamaha receiver (same vintage as the Pioneer SX-770) and a pair of speakers. (I also gave him a car's trunk's worth of surplus classical vinyl albums that I had, to play on it.) The turntable on loan is a Pioneer PL-510 with a Shure M95ED cartridge. It sat unused from the early 90's when my Dad passed away, until five years or so ago when Mom died. I inherited it and right away I looked for someone to lend it out to so that it would go to good use.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I don't listen to vinyl while I'm working at the computer and am in a non-critical mode either - way too much trouble to get up every 20 minutes! In that case, I usually just pull up iTunes or Foobar.

 

[Deleted member 133]

I don't listen to vinyl while I'm working at the computer and am in a non-critical mode either - way too much trouble to get up every 20 minutes! In that case, I usually just pull up iTunes or Foobar.

Ditto!

 

[jamhead]

Gents,

I've got to go back to the OP. My assumption was it was for non-critical listening ("my office") using an old receiver and a pair of Heresies. Not for a listening-only room like SH's. (Which, by the way, makes my top three list of rooms that I've listened in; the others being mine and Flint's.) That implied, perhaps wrongly, a "I want to listen to something while I'm working - in my office" arrangement. Hence my "why vinyl?" question / comment - with the caveat that perhaps the music to be listened to was already on vinyl.

I stand by that.

In all other cases, including critical listening, it all comes down to taste: for a given recording which format sounds better to you. For me, 99%+ of the time it's not vinyl.

Jeff

ps. Why two turntables? I said I own two. One is hooked up in my main HT (I've previously described how / why / what for etc.) and the other is out on long-term loan, as I do with a lot of my surplus gear, to a friend's son, along with an old Yamaha receiver (same vintage as the Pioneer SX-770) and a pair of speakers. (I also gave him a car's trunk's worth of surplus classical vinyl albums that I had, to play on it.) The turntable on loan is a Pioneer PL-510 with a Shure M95ED cartridge. It sat unused from the early 90's when my Dad passed away, until five years or so ago when Mom died. I inherited it and right away I looked for someone to lend it out to so that it would go to good use.

You need to come listen to my room.....your top 3 list may change.

:happy-smileygiantred:

 

[Yesfan70]

(a Technics....don't laugh.)

Why laugh? Panasonic is relaunching the Technics turntable next year.

I always thought Technics was on the lower end of turntable performance. My TT didn't cost anywhere near $300 new, which is at the low end of Lake's price range. I bought mine used about 15 years ago for $60 and it included an Audio Technica needle. It's the SL-BD20.


I mainly use mine for digitizing albums that haven't ever been released on CD.

 

[TKoP]

What kind of cartridge are you going to get? I remember The Poster Formerly Known as SoundHound had a very strong preference for MM or MC (MM I think was the preferred). And what about the stylus needle itself, I know there are different flavors of those as well.

Also, how often do you need to replace them?

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Moving coil is my preference, but they are more expensive and not all preamps have the extra gain needed. The stylus in a MC is typically not user replaceable.

 

[Deleted member 133]

Also, how often do you need to replace them?

This is taking me back a long long time, but here's a few pointers related to the question (disclaimer: these apply to all "regular" turntables / cartridges, and may not to some of those fancy schmancy esotrekker ones):

1. Keep your vinyl immaculately clean with a proper brush. (I like the Discwasher system). This will extend both the stylus and the vinyl's life. I suggest a Zerostat gun to help reduce dust attraction to the grooves after every cleaning. (And by the way, they didn't name a turntable's "dustcover" for nothing!) Store your records properly to prevent warping - which will increase wear.

2. Make sure the catridge / tonearm are properly aligned according to OEM specs. Out-of-alignment will result in faster wear / more damage - not to mention degraded sound. Make sure the turntable's base is perfectly level as well.

3. Use a proper gauge / balance to set the stylus force. Too much will result in higher wear; too little will result in mistracking and damage to the record's grooves. I like the Shure SFG-2 stylus tracking force gauge.

4. Clean the needle regularly with a proper tool / fluid designed for that purpose. Mine's so old that I don't know who made it (Discwasher - perhaps) but there's a bunch of different ones available. Remember to clean only from back to front to avoid damaging the stylus / cartridge.

5. Adjust the tonearm's anti-skating properly to the given stylus forcet. Take into account any special instructions that come with cartridges with built-in groove brushes. Again, when not correct, both the stylus and record grooves can wear unevenly.

6. If all of this has been done and it sounds like the stylus is worn, then it's too late - you're already causing damage to the grooves!

7. But better late than never - change the stylus. "How often" you asked (thought I'd never get to the point?) I always erred on the safe side and did so every few hundred hours. A stylus is relatively cheap. Damaged grooves never heal. (And yes they do wear a bit every time they are played regardless.)

Of course the best answer is ... never. Hopefully by the time the stylus needs changing you'll come to your senses and drop vinyl altogether. :happy-smileygiantred:

Jeff

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

A few thousand hours is generally what a stylus will last. Inexpensive 50x microscopes for this purpose can be had, but I don't know off hand where.