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Use the best speaker for the job at hand - size versus bass

When rate, I meant as I am using them as stereo speakers, with High Fidelity aspersions. Also vs the high end speakers of the day, Magico, B&W, Wilson, YG Acoustics.

What I think shouldn't matter too much to you. It is better for you to learn what you like and why (which is why I share so much detail on the aspects of how speakers work and what the measurements mean) so you can find and enjoy what makes you happy. If I go on about one style of speaker design having scientific flaws which distort the sound in some way, but you LOVE that speaker design more than anything else in the world, then perhaps those flaws are what make magic for you. Much like LPs which have a ton of inherent flaws in accuracy yet smart, experienced, and wealthy listeners choose them regularly as their preferred audio source, perfection (which is my vision of audio nirvana) may not be the "best" for you or anyone else.

So, using a ton of words to try to address that rather complicated question...

I prefer accurate, real, critically perfect speakers which reveal every single aspect of a recording in the room they are in. That is my definition of aspiring for the best. Those JBLs are designed to do just that and they are very, very good at it. That's why they cost more than most similarly sized studio monitors and home speakers. They went so far as to even address one of the detriments of passive crossovers by putting a small bias voltage on all the capacitors which reduces some of the ringing and distortions inherent in all capacitors used in passive filters. So, how do they rate? Well, for me they rate extremely well.

Also, as I mentioned, being able to perform extremely accurately for a listener sitting at least 6 feet away from the speakers in a real home, the JBLs have an advantage over many speakers out there in their controlled dispersion and smooth & wide power response. They reduce many of the issues of reflections in a room in the midrange through treble, and they are inherently more efficient at putting sound at the listening position which in turn reduces distortion and increased dynamic range and peak SPLs. So, especially in average listening rooms, they should perform better than most in a home environment.

Compared to the brands you listed, well, if you compare the JBLs to similarly priced models from those companies, I think they rate better. When it comes to performance per dollar, the JBLs do WAY better than anything in the same range from those other companies.

If you want to talk absolute performance regardless of price, Wilson Audio makes some damn fine sounding speakers when setup properly and placed ideally in a well treated room of appropriate size. Same goes for YG Acoustics. B&W has never sounded good to me, I find them far too harsh and bright sounding, even at the top end of their products and no amount of external processing seems to be able to fix that for me. It's like they are bright and if I put a little treble cut on the they remain bright sounding until they are painfully lacking all treble. It is strange, and I've never understood why they are like that. But, there you go. Millions of people love their sound and are happy to buy their products and listen to them all the time. I haven't spent any quality time with Magico, but the comments I've received and read from people I trust who have heard them in demo environments suggests they are just okay, especially given their selling prices. Of course, I don't know, so I am only going on hearsay.
 
One more thing...

Another reason for my long rants and challenging statements of established speaker brands is to encourage everyone to start thinking beyond the popular crap they see out there. There are some outstanding speakers out there which often get overlooked or completely ignored which may carry one of my friends to audio nirvana, but since they are not typical looking, widely available, or commonly mentioned on the audiophile forums or audiophile magazines are assumed to be unworthy of consideration. I hope people experiment more, take more risks, and discover what really clicks for their tastes rather than buy the same shit they've been told is good. Bandwagon-ism leads to miserable dull complacency in damn near every aspect of life. Why let it ruin something ethereal and good for your soul like enjoying music.
 
This came up in a conversation this week: A smart audio nerd with good tastes in speakers was discussing one of his systems and claimed it sounded "congested" when played at reasonable, and desirable, levels. When I looked into the specifications it was pretty obvious to me where the issue was - the woofer.

The system used a mass loaded transmission line bass cabinet to coax an 8" woofer to produce bass as low as 25Hz mated to highly efficient and high-output capable planar and ribbon midrange and tweeter drivers.

A woofer has to move a huge amount of air to produce appreciable bass SPL, and larger drivers are generally inherently capable of moving more air than smaller drivers. Considering the basic physics, even with a high output port, like a transmission line, a woofer needs to move more at 50Hz than at 100Hz, generally twice as much to get the same SPL. To create the same output at 25Hz it has to move almost twice as much as it does at 50Hz or nearly four times as much as it does at 100Hz.

That's a pretty easy concept.

That changes with cone area. A woofer with twice the cone area as another woofer will need to move half as much to generate a given SPL to match the smaller one. So, if a 8 inch woofer needs to move 1mm to generate 80dB SPL at 50Hz, then an 11.25" woofer (double the cone area) would need to move only 0.5mm to generate the same output (all other aspects being equal).

Why don't all speaker just use larger woofers? Well, most larger woofers suffer at higher frequencies and they require wader cabinet baffles which are generally not popular these days.

A second option is to use two 8" woofers to generate the same SPL with half the cone motion, which is fine and is very commonly done with the big box brands like Paradigm, Golden Ear, Definitive, Energy, Mirage, and so on.

Why don't big audiophile brands use lots of smaller drivers rather than one or two larger drivers? Well, in general you get one larger driver that performs identically to two smaller drivers for less money. So, should you pay for two 8" woofers of the highest quality or 66% the price for one 11" woofer of the same highest quality? I'd go with the lower cost, larger option over two smaller woofers most of the time.
 
Well except for the big Wilson's, my JBL's 15" woofer competes or surpasses with just about any speakers I have heard. The bass is very palpable, you can feel the bass with no problem, no compression like with my Magnepan's. However I never find it boomy, it can play loud no problem. also no upper bass chestiness like in my old JBL L96. Which had a 10" woofer, with a much smaller bookshelf type cabinet. Bass rolled off fast after 50hz according to JBLs own spec's.

I would love to hear a side by side with Magico and YG Acoustics vs my speakers in a similar size cabinet or their's could be somewhat bigger. To hear how their sealed smaller woofers sound vs my larger ported woofers. Or against Wilson Audio's Sasha 2 W/P which comes in at $30k with two, 8" woofers.

The dealer I bought my JBL's from thought the speakers, best quality was it's value vs other more expensive speakers. For me it was just their overall sound, and their lower price was also a definite bonus.
 
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Well except for the big Wilson's, my JBL's 15" woofer competes or surpasses with just about any speakers I have heard. The bass is very palpable, you can feel the bass with no problem, no compression like with my Magnepan's. However I never find it boomy, it can play loud no problem. also no upper bass chestiness like in my old JBL L96. Which had a 10" woofer, with a much smaller bookshelf type cabinet. Bass rolled off fast after 50hz according to JBLs own spec's.

I would love to hear a side by side with Magico and YG Acoustics vs my speakers in a similar size cabinet or their's could be somewhat bigger. To hear how their sealed smaller woofers sound vs my larger ported woofers. Or against Wilson Audio's Sasha 2 W/P which comes in at $30k with two, 8" woofers.

The dealer I bought my JBL's from thought the speakers, best quality was it's value vs other more expensive speakers. For me it was just their overall sound, and their lower price was also a definite bonus.


Your JBL speakers are a great example of using the right speaker for the job.
 
"The system used a mass loaded transmission line bass cabinet to coax an 8" woofer to produce bass as low as 25Hz mated to highly efficient and high-output capable planar and ribbon midrange and tweeter drivers."

Sounds like Emminent Technology LFT8B's to me. I love planer type speakers sound, but hate their limitations.
 
"The system used a mass loaded transmission line bass cabinet to coax an 8" woofer to produce bass as low as 25Hz mated to highly efficient and high-output capable planar and ribbon midrange and tweeter drivers."

Sounds like Emminent Technology LFT8B's to me. I love planer type speakers sound, but hate their limitations.

I love a good fullrange planar, but I hate attempting to blend a planar to a cone woofer. I find it obvious and somewhat shocking how the upper frequencies sound very differently from the lower frequencies. I also would never attempt to mate a planar with a ribbon. Either go with all ribbon or all magnetic-planar, at least for high end "reference" grade sound.

But, put be in front a pair of very huge electrostatics, Maggies, or massive ribbon speakers, and I am happy.
 
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