20 Year Old Article - Fascinating

[Towen7]

All a person can reasonably do is assure that the reproduction side is as neutral as possible, and this is done by making sure the response at the listening position is devoid of wild swings in response, and that the acoustics of the room are not degrading the sound.

It really is that simple isn't it ?

 

[PaulyT]

No! No! It can't be! We have to have something complicated to argue about!!!! :angry-cussingblack:

 

[Towen7]

You can still argue about how to achieve that neutrality. Just stop trying to figure what a piece of music is "supposed" to sound like.

 

[soundhound]

It is really wonderful to see you here, SH. Things are more fair and balanced with you here.

Great to be here!

 

[soundhound]

You can still argue about how to achieve that neutrality. Just stop trying to figure what a piece of music is "supposed" to sound like.

I can get behind that. :text-bravo:

 

[TitaniumTroy]

Regarding neutrality, such as taking the room acoustics and speakers out of the equation. A pair of high quality headphones can address some of these problems, as a reference tool. They have less distortion than speakers and are not effected by room acoustics. This was mentioned by Irritable Flint in a similar thread over at S&V awhile back. :music-listening:

 

[Zing]

Regarding neutrality, such as taking the room acoustics and speakers out of the equation. A pair of high quality headphones can address some of these problems, as a reference tool. They have less distortion than speakers and are not effected by room acoustics. This was mentioned by Irritable Flint in a similar thread over at S&V awhile back. :music-listening:

I would disagree with that, on a number of levels.

First, headphones are an equivilent to speakers. So if you take the speakers out of the equation, you should also take headphones out too. I see where you were trying to go with this (which was the sound producing device's interaction with the room) and you're right, no room considerations with cans. But, they are indeed a sound producing device.

Secondly, just as different speakers sound different, so too do headphones. Case and point: the AKG K701s vs. the Denon AH-D7000. They are as dramatically different as are a Bose Cube and a Dynaudio C1. As long as you constantly and consistently use just one (or the other), it can be a reference. But you'll never be able to know which one is more like the original.

 

[soundhound]

One thing that headphones have going for them verses speakers is that unlike speakers, their overall frequency response is not influenced by the room, or by dispersion characteristics. The same model of speaker can sound quite different in different rooms because only a fraction of the direct output from the speaker is reaching the listener's ears - the rest is indirect sound via the room (unless your room is an anechoic chamber). Also, two speakers with otherwise identical on-axis anechoic frequency responses can sound dramatically different in a room due to the speakers having different dispersion patterns over their frequency ranges. One of the speakers might have, say, much more off-axis high frequency energy than the other, which when the total direct & reflected sound reaches the ear in an actual room, that speaker will sound like it has stronger highs.

With headphones, any differences in their sound quality will be almost totally due to the actual frequency responses of the driver unit.

 

[Zing]

One thing that headphones have going for them verses speakers is that unlike speakers, their overall frequency response is not influenced by the room, or by dispersion characteristics.

I believe that was the point Troy was making. I guess I was just splitting hairs.

 

[TitaniumTroy]

No problem on the hair splitting Zing.

Another point I was trying to make though I kind of glossed over it,. Is since headphones use much less power, and reproduce sound at much lower levels, both things should combine to make overall distortion much lower. Flint also mentioned that if a recording sounds similar on your headphones vs your speakers. Then in general your speakers should be fairly accurate. 

I think headphones as a reference vs a speaker is a good tool overall, however it is just one tool.

 

[GreatDane]

I try to not get overly obsessed with this general topic. My thought is- if it sounds good to you, then it is good. Maybe over simplified but we can only do so much within our budget. My budget isn't very big and this is why I haven't changed my speakers in about 8 years. I'm actually quite happy with my current system. I do make small changes but at no large expense.

What I concentrate on more is listening with headphones which for me simply works better for critical listening. My speakers are more of a casual thing while surfing the net. When I listen to headphones I often put my head back and close my eyes becoming completely pulled into the experience. I do feel that my speakers have very good detail when comparing them to my headphones. I have my speakers and listening seat set up fairly optimal.

I haven't had the opportunity to listen to true high-end systems tweaked for music. I do believe I experience a very high-end sound with my current headphone, the Beyerdynamic T1. The T1 may not be extremely neutral but it delivers amazing distortion free detail at any SPL. I consider this to be my reference since it's the best that I can manage to afford at this time. I've heard many other high-end headphones and they all have their own "flavor" or coloration to add to the source. I enjoy variety in music selection and also how each genre sounds through different monitors of choice. I don't think that I'd be happy if I could only listen with one "perfectly accurate" monitor for all of my music choices.

 

[Towen7]

I worry that many of you may be listening to your systems and not so much the music. From my perspective all I need is a few TrueRTA quick sweeps to make sure there are no big peaks/valleys and a few acoustic treatments to address obvious problems. Maybe if I had more time or a bigger budget I'd be as concerned with perfection.

 

[TitaniumTroy]

For me it's not about finding perfection. Its about the journey to find out how far a pair of high end speakers and excellent room acoustics can take you to Audio Nirvana. I want to hear other high end speakers to compare how much different, better, or worse they sound vs my present speakers.

Over the years one thing that has held me back is the horrible acoustics in a majority of audio dealers showrooms. Most of this was before I even knew how important a factor room acoustics are in relation to speakers. So I am trying to find audio dealers with better showrooms these days, next stop for me is going to be Audio Solutions in Indy. Their showroom looks to be larger than most and they currently have Magico
and Meridian speakers set up. http://theaudiosolutions.com/

 

[soundhound]

For me, I find myself tweaking quite a bit, with the music being just "test signal". That's part of the enjoyment for me. Other times I listen strictly for the music. Depends on my mood.

 

[malsackj]

Ok so if you run an RTA on the electronic output on the recording and an RTA of the room with playback and you are close to the original RTA signal than you should be Good!

Some feel RTA is not accurate enough and you might want to run the FFT and see how these compare.

The one thing that will always be different is the room and accoustics of your room. This will always be different from the original room. By removing the first reflection points and adding accoustics controls you will lower the impact the room acoustics have on the playback.

 

[soundhound]

An RTA is just an FFT which has parameters adjusted specifically for measuring audio. You would not want to use an actual FFT for audio, as the data would be pretty useless.

 

[Aaron German]

I worry that many of you may be listening to your systems and not so much the music. From my perspective all I need is a few TrueRTA quick sweeps to make sure there are no big peaks/valleys and a few acoustic treatments to address obvious problems. Maybe if I had more time or a bigger budget I'd be as concerned with perfection.

:text-goodpost:

For me, I find myself tweaking quite a bit, with the music being just "test signal". That's part of the enjoyment for me. Other times I listen strictly for the music. Depends on my mood.

:text-goodpost: