AVS Forum Dynaudio Thread

[jamhead]

I quit visiting the Dynaudio speaker thread a couple years ago due to the overabundance of arrogance/snobbery and downright silliness. Today, popped in to see if things had changed and this is what I saw:

"I will add a bit of “Naim recommendations”,it is a good practice to occaisionlly unplug/re-plug in all your power chords,and interconnects.This will help clean off any oxidisation,and freshen up the contact area.Also,if using their Naim Fraim racks,which I do,you should disassemble it once a year,to re-torque all components that may settle over time,and make sure to dress all cables properly,
so no signal cables touch power chords,and with Superlumina,they MUST hang free."

Immediately followed by:

"Naim recommends that their amps should be switched ON all the time. New amps have toroidal transformers which take 48hrs to warm up and that's why you should have them plugged in and switched on all the time. Tyler said the reason most of the systems don't sound good the first day in audio shows is because it takes 24-48hrs for amps to warm up and produce good sound."

All of which was preceded by:

"My C1's sounded great right out of the box. After about 100 hrs they did sound pretty bad. At around 200 hrs they back to sounding real good again. At 350 - 400 hrs they finally sounded great."

Being a Dynaudio owner myself - I am ashamed.

 

[AndySTL]

Ha! I too used to follow that thread when I first got my Dynadios. And I too stopped following it b/c of all the terrible posters in it. There also seemed to be a ton of bickering in that thread.

 

[CMonster]

I've subscribed and unsubscribed from that thread countless times. Sometimes it makes me embarrassed as a Dynaudio owner but I also find it amusing what some are spending money on (one guy recently mentioned he spent more money on a power cable than a set of speakers).

Edit - It was speaker cables:

finally got around to running my excite 12s in 2 channel today...since adding the Superlumina full loom to my Naim gear. To put it in context, the speaker cables alone cost four times what I paid for the excites with stand 3s.

 

[Zing]

I'm officially done discussing audio - or even trying to help others dispel misconceptions - anywhere but this forum.

I recently saw two people reference their "5.2" systems. For clarification, I asked where they were getting the ".2" from and they both said they had two subs. I explained, as politely as I could, how that's inaccurate if they're sending the same signal to both subs. Someone else half-heartedly defended me and said I was correct but "the masses generally regard the .x as the number of subs they have." Once again, I tried to explain that it was the number of discrete channels and that you can't add an additional center channel speaker and suddenly start claiming you have a 6.1.

The last straw was when yet another dude chimed in with "I see where you're going with this but the entire industry uses that number for the amount of locations and I know what I'm talking about because I design and install home theaters for a living."

 

[heeman]

The Dynaudio Thread over at AVS confirmed that I was not crazy.

There are others there that have bottomed out their C1's............... So I was not the only one. I don't have to worry about that anymore.

All their other jazz about Naim and other cables and stuff is just hilarious!!

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I'm officially done discussing audio - or even trying to help others dispel misconceptions.......

I'm beginning to come to the same point. Information is available all over the internet, some good, some bad, and the user will need to use common sense in determining which is which.

 

[CMonster]

I'm officially done discussing audio - or even trying to help others dispel misconceptions - anywhere but this forum.

I recently saw two people reference their "5.2" systems. For clarification, I asked where they were getting the ".2" from and they both said they had two subs. I explained, as politely as I could, how that's inaccurate if they're sending the same signal to both subs. Someone else half-heartedly defended me and said I was correct but "the masses generally regard the .x as the number of subs they have." Once again, I tried to explain that it was the number of discrete channels and that you can't add an additional center channel speaker and suddenly start claiming you have a 6.1.

The last straw was when yet another dude chimed in with "I see where you're going with this but the entire industry uses that number for the amount of locations and I know what I'm talking about because I design and install home theaters for a living."

While I agree that you’re correct, given that there has only ever been a single LFE channel I don’t think it’s a big deal to instead denote number of subs. Going by the strict standard, pretty much everyone has an x.1.y system so the .1 is redundant and adds no useful information to the conversation.

 

[Deleted member 133]

I'm officially done discussing audio - or even trying to help others dispel misconceptions - anywhere but this forum.

I recently saw two people reference their "5.2" systems. For clarification, I asked where they were getting the ".2" from and they both said they had two subs. I explained, as politely as I could, how that's inaccurate if they're sending the same signal to both subs. Someone else half-heartedly defended me and said I was correct but "the masses generally regard the .x as the number of subs they have." Once again, I tried to explain that it was the number of discrete channels and that you can't add an additional center channel speaker and suddenly start claiming you have a 6.1.

The last straw was when yet another dude chimed in with "I see where you're going with this but the entire industry uses that number for the amount of locations and I know what I'm talking about because I design and install home theaters for a living."

Yeah, that's one of my pet peeves and I still don't shy away from posting about it.

Jeff

ps. A while back I started posting on another forum that claims ~75,000 members. I find some of it informative (I regularly learn about music I'd not heard about before) but find a lot of the "audio hardware" posts hard to take. In that, I am reminded of the old S&V Forums where I once posted about the parallels between a belief in God and "audio;" how the belief in God can be entirely faith-based (as opposed to evidence-based) and just as legitimately so too can one's belief in audio, and more specifically things that "affect" the sound we hear. Basically one cannot criticize someone's belief in the difference that interconnects, power cables, etc. have on sound if they truly (faithfully) believe that they hear a difference. They have faith in what they are hearing - just as does the person listening to his or her priest every Sunday. And no matter what our own beliefs (or facts, or evidence, or lack thereof) if we accept one's right to believe in God (which I do) then one must also accept their belief in power cables. It does not mean that we so believe as well; nor that we will ever hear what they claim to hear. Just that, because it's all about faith, we need to let it stand unopposed.

That, and the fact that I've learned to not argue with idiots.

 

[Randy]

Wow, so even in the age of the internet where we have the combined knowledge of all mankind at our fingertips and this kind of shit lives on. I should have gone into sales!

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

That, and the fact that I've learned to not argue with idiots.

Usually, there is a grain of truth to the claims that the crazies make. However they take a valid effect (like the skin effect in wires) and apply it to things and in ways where the effect doesn't make a shit of difference. For instance, flies undoubtedly fart. However it would be a stupid assumption to then reason that a singular fart which takes place in Australia will have some actual impact in North America. Maybe the most sensitive measurement gear on earth might register some minute, minute, minute disturbance which can be attributed to that fly farting, but sure as hell nobody in North America is going to hear said fart, nor is it likely to raise the methane levels by any detectable amount.

However, none of this will matter to someone who swears he can hear and smell the fart.

Same with audio. Now you know.

 

[Deleted member 133]

Usually, there is a grain of truth to the claims that the crazies make. However they take a valid effect (like the skin effect in wires) and apply it to things and in ways where the effect doesn't make a shit of difference. For instance, flies undoubtedly fart. However it would be a stupid assumption to then reason that a singular fart which takes place in Australia will have some actual impact in North America. Maybe the most sensitive measurement gear on earth might register some minute, minute, minute disturbance which can be attributed to that fly farting, but sure as hell nobody in North America is going to hear said fart, nor is it likely to raise the methane levels by any detectable amount.

However, none of this will matter to someone who swears he can hear and smell the fart.

Same with audio. Now you know.

My point exactly - except explained in a far more elegant manner than I did!

 

[Flint]

I have written about maintaining one's system by doing many things, and one of them is unplugging and reconnecting all the cables to clean the electrical contacts and scrape off any corrosion. That is a real thing, though rare, when something stops functioning due to oxidation on the contacts.

 

[CMonster]

I have written about maintaining one's system by doing many things, and one of them is unplugging and reconnecting all the cables to clean the electrical contacts and scrape off any corrosion. That is a real thing, though rare, when something stops functioning due to oxidation on the contacts.

Agree with that aspect but how about what was said about amplifiers (second quote in jammy’s original post)? I was hoping to hear an opinion from @rammisframmis as well (mentioned in another thread with the same quote).

 

[Randy]

The only corrosion I have ever noticed in any of the various equipment I have had throughout the years was corrosion of the Original Monster Cable that I used for speaker wire for years.

I also pulled a bunch of that crap out of my boat while pulling the new wire and it was all corroded too.

 

[Flint]

The only corrosion I have ever noticed in any of the various equipment I have had throughout the years was corrosion of the Original Monster Cable that I used for speaker wire for years.

I also pulled a bunch of that crap out of my boat while pulling the new wire and it was all corroded too.

The rated of corrosion will vary based on climate, products, materials, HVAC, and overall cleanliness of the house (pets makes it worse). Also, most gear has decent quality coatings/plating on their sockets like gold, corrosion resistant nickle and so on.

 

[mzpro5]

I had some corrosin/oxidation in my old house that was no really sealed well and had poor HVAC but since moving and using new speaker wire have had no problems over the last 6 years.

 

[Flint]

"My C1's sounded great right out of the box. After about 100 hrs they did sound pretty bad. At around 200 hrs they back to sounding real good again. At 350 - 400 hrs they finally sounded great."

Nonsense.

People just like to sound smart and take a concept they overheard other people they respect saying a take it to the next level, making them even more smart than those they respect. I think we all do it from time to time, but in this hobby it has gotten so out of control after 40 years of audiophile tomfoolery building up on prior tomfoolery until properly educated people cannot even recognize what people are saying anymore. People who know better have grown so jaded they just let it go and it gets worse and worse.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Agree with that aspect but how about what was said about amplifiers (second quote in jammy’s original post)? I was hoping to hear an opinion from @rammisframmis as well (mentioned in another thread with the same quote).

Regarding power transformers, the idea that a transformer needs to "warm up" is absolute nonsense. A transformer does just one thing, and that is to translate the incoming AC line voltage from 120 volts to usually dual AC voltages which are then rectified and smoothed to produce DC voltages which run the amp. Warming up, freezing, waving dead chickens or even spraying with the legendary SoundHound Piss © won't change a single thing in what the transformer is doing. In fact it could be argued that it is better to keep the transformer cooler than not since the wire windings, like all wire, has its resistance increase with increased temperature, and that can effect current delivery. This effect is way down in importance though; AC line voltage sag is MUCH more of an issue, even in our lab. That's why when we test amplifiers, we use a big honk'in variac which is fed directly with 240 volts in order to keep the incoming AC line voltage at exactly 120 volts under full power from the amp. You can never do this at home, nor do you really need to, as the power loss from line sag would go by unnoticed - but its still there, even with a dedicated line.

All conventional solid state push-pull amplifiers have a characteristic which is known as power supply rejection ratio. What this means is that any (within reason) crud or ripple on the DC voltages is rejected by the amplifier circuitry since all conventional amplifiers are essentially a "power op-amp". Solid state amplifiers which are single ended (those are always expensive) and tube amplifiers do not have any appreciable power supply rejection, so it is important to use lots of filter capacitance and otherwise paying attention to keeping the DC rails clean.

Oxidation on contacts on low level circuits is not really an issue when gold plated (or the cheaper gold "flashed") jacks and plugs are used; gold is immune to corrosion. If you have any interconnects or jacks on your gear which are the older tin type, these will certainly be subject to corrosion. I fight this myself since most of my equipment falls into that category (its also why I've standardized on using BNC jacks and plugs on equipment I design and build myself, since these are essentially immune to corrosion). Its also worth mentioning that some corrosion can be caused by certain metal differences between the jack and the plug due to galvanic effects.

If you smoke, the god-knows-what in cigarette smoke will coat everything in the room, and that will have the same end effect as actual oxidation.

I have found that the best insurance with any metal is polishing the connections with Mothers Mag and Aluminum Metal Polish, which is sold at auto parts stores.

For high level speaker connections, you need to make sure that you are using a high quality copper wire - not the cheap Home Depot stuff which is prone to turning green under its clear jacket. If possible, terminate the ends of the wire with gold plated crimp-on spade lugs. There is no reason to buy "audiophile" speaker wire, just high quality wire which will not corrode and which is thick enough to avoid effects on speaker damping due to resistance in the wire. I wrote previously about the nonsense audiophile companies use to sell things like wire; yes, the skin effect is real in wire. HOWEVER, that is only true at radio frequencies! The same thing is true with line level interconnects; the skin effect does not even begin to enter the picture at audio frequencies. The fancy gymnastics and outright bullshit which cable manufacturers use to justify what they sell.....well, I say lock them up!

 

[bmwuk]

I like the Revel owners thread because some of the main guys from Harman will sometimes post on there as well as one dealer shares a lot of info.

 

[Chelsea4023]

Hi,
I'm new on this Forum, but I joined purely because of this brilliant thread and my love of audio.
I had a good laugh at some of the posts on here as it clearly highlights the craziness of this pastime.
Jamhead's first post is absolutely brilliant and resonates with me.

I'm a Dynaudio owner with a pair of Excite X18's which I bought secondhand, and more recently an
Excite X22 centre speaker bought secondhand on Ebay for £100 U.K.

Had these speakers been brand new, I would definitely not have been able to afford them, so basically I'm
doing it on the cheap.
When I hear stories of owners spending more on leads and cables than the cost of the hardware the hairs on
the back of my neck stand up...........Scary !!

Although I'm in my mid sixties I don't profess any great knowledge on this subject, but I was aware that high
frequency sound is directional whereas low frequency sound is not (hope I got that right).
The point I'm trying to make is that if you have a subwoofer and it's set up correctly the low frequency sound
would come from all around you leading me to question the need for two subs. Surely just one larger sub would
suffice ?
Chris
p.s. Apologies that this post is more than a year since the last one, but hopefully it will spark some more
interest.