do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert!
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Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
Yeah, but they aren't out of the closet if they are. But you know, it wouldn't surprise me. :text-lol:
I disagree that Huey's post is stupid. Honestly, as best as I can see it, there's three options on the origins of homosexuality:
1) Genetic- there's a "gay gene" that sets sexual preference
2) Behavioral- something as someone grows up can cause someone to look in one or the other direction for sexual preference
3) Choice- it's whatever someone chooses
If the first, then yes, I agree that one day there will likely be some treatment that will alter the likelihood of someone's sexual preference getting fixed in one direction or the other. Honestly, though, my guess is that the real cause may well be a mix of those three... with some it may be more one or two than others. I don't know we'll ever fully understand things- the human brain is a funky piece of meat and we're a long way from really understanding why it works the way it does.
As for Archie, meh. It seems more to me to be a cry of "WE'RE STILL HERE. BUY IT." Nobody would know it was still published if they weren't trying to strike a chord with press releases.
Batman said:
Yeah, but they aren't out of the closet if they are. But you know, it wouldn't surprise me. :text-lol:
I disagree that Huey's post is stupid. Honestly, as best as I can see it, there's three options on the origins of homosexuality:
1) Genetic- there's a "gay gene" that sets sexual preference
2) Behavioral- something as someone grows up can cause someone to look in one or the other direction for sexual preference
3) Choice- it's whatever someone chooses
If the first, then yes, I agree that one day there will likely be some treatment that will alter the likelihood of someone's sexual preference getting fixed in one direction or the other. Honestly, though, my guess is that the real cause may well be a mix of those three... with some it may be more one or two than others. I don't know we'll ever fully understand things- the human brain is a funky piece of meat and we're a long way from really understanding why it works the way it does.
As for Archie, meh. It seems more to me to be a cry of "WE'RE STILL HERE. BUY IT." Nobody would know it was still published if they weren't trying to strike a chord with press releases.
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
Ahem..., uh.., I'm not an expert on Batman series so I'll ask this, for the longest time, I've been hearing some things about the partnership of Batman and Robin being more than just work partnership. Whenever I see such question posted or asked during interviews, it's kinda passed off as just a joke or lighthearted jab at such a successful character. Is there a definitive answer on this? :confusion-scratchheadyellow:Batman said:
Srvy
Well-Known Member
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
According to Marvel Thor is no longer lift the hammer. Are you ready for Thorita?
http://www.thewrap.com/marvels-thor-is- ... announces/
According to Marvel Thor is no longer lift the hammer. Are you ready for Thorita?
http://www.thewrap.com/marvels-thor-is- ... announces/
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
I believe the MADDEST I ever got another human being was about ten years ago in a prior job. There were about six of us in the cubicle area, discussing homosexuality, and one, a very highly arrogant, holier-than-thou mormon kept insisting "It's a CHOICE!! They CHOOSE to sin!! They must be held ACCOUNTABLE!!!"
I finally cleared my throat and said something like "Ted, if it's a choice for them, that means it's also a choice for all of us here. Now, I can't speak for the rest of you, but myself, I like girls. It's not a choice for me, I just do. I couldn't possibly, uh, "be with" a man.
Do you, Ted, actually have feelings for both sexes, but only through your superior moral base, are able to control your actions?"
The redness in his face was amazing, it actually tinted the walls. The vessels in his neck just BULGED! He started to leave, and I (stupidly) followed him, telling him "C'mon Ted, you can tell us, you're among friends!" My spider sense started to tingle and I stopped. I don't think he EVER forgave me for that.
Akula said:
I believe the MADDEST I ever got another human being was about ten years ago in a prior job. There were about six of us in the cubicle area, discussing homosexuality, and one, a very highly arrogant, holier-than-thou mormon kept insisting "It's a CHOICE!! They CHOOSE to sin!! They must be held ACCOUNTABLE!!!"
I finally cleared my throat and said something like "Ted, if it's a choice for them, that means it's also a choice for all of us here. Now, I can't speak for the rest of you, but myself, I like girls. It's not a choice for me, I just do. I couldn't possibly, uh, "be with" a man.
Do you, Ted, actually have feelings for both sexes, but only through your superior moral base, are able to control your actions?"
The redness in his face was amazing, it actually tinted the walls. The vessels in his neck just BULGED! He started to leave, and I (stupidly) followed him, telling him "C'mon Ted, you can tell us, you're among friends!" My spider sense started to tingle and I stopped. I don't think he EVER forgave me for that.
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
Botch, from what I've been told, being born with certain sexual preference isn't a choice but whether to live a certain life style is. For example, if I were to live a sexually active life style per my own preference like couple of my friends do, or not to live such life style, that would be my choice.
Botch, from what I've been told, being born with certain sexual preference isn't a choice but whether to live a certain life style is. For example, if I were to live a sexually active life style per my own preference like couple of my friends do, or not to live such life style, that would be my choice.
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
I've had gay friends all my life and it's strange that they don't think their lifestyle is all that different than a straight couple. It's the bigotry of others that define who their friends are. I had a gay room mate all thru college he is very cool and loved joking about his "gayness" in fact he laughed harder at gay jokes than anyone else.
My nephew (who was named after me) is gay and also doesn't see it as a choice just born that way. I don't see him as straight or gay I see him as my nephew and a family member I love. To me people who judge others on their lifestyle choice are the ones with the problem.
I don't walk around wondering what anybody is doing in their bedrooms as long as they love the person they are with than that's all that matters. I recall when my nephew came out to me and was concerned how I would take it. I said, "does he make you happy"? He said, "yes". So I responded than that's all that matters. We had a beer and nothing more was said.
I've had gay friends all my life and it's strange that they don't think their lifestyle is all that different than a straight couple. It's the bigotry of others that define who their friends are. I had a gay room mate all thru college he is very cool and loved joking about his "gayness" in fact he laughed harder at gay jokes than anyone else.
My nephew (who was named after me) is gay and also doesn't see it as a choice just born that way. I don't see him as straight or gay I see him as my nephew and a family member I love. To me people who judge others on their lifestyle choice are the ones with the problem.
I don't walk around wondering what anybody is doing in their bedrooms as long as they love the person they are with than that's all that matters. I recall when my nephew came out to me and was concerned how I would take it. I said, "does he make you happy"? He said, "yes". So I responded than that's all that matters. We had a beer and nothing more was said.
D
Deleted member 133
Guest
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
Some of you really don't get it!
The notion that being gay is somehow wrong and that therefore "one day there might be a cure" is just plain wrong.
There is nothing "wrong" with being gay. Nothing whatsoever. What's wrong are attitudes (and unfortunately actions) towards gays.
There's no cure needed.
What we have is, on average across the U.S., ~4% of the population who are gay. The number could be higher due to the nature of the surveys used to gather those figures, but it's probably no less than that. So gays are a minority. Why would the majority want to rid itself of such amazing diversity by even contemplating a "cure"? The mind boggles.
Let's look at it another way. It is estimated that between 2-6% of the American population are natural redheads. So there's roughly the same number of redheads as gays (and some of both.) In the case of redheads we have identified the causal gene(s). So we have the same size minority population for which we know the cause. Why not suggest investing in genetic engineering to purge society of the scourge that is redheads?
What? Dumb idea? Of course it is.
It's one of the "so many reasons" that I nominated DIYer's post for the 2014 dumbass award.
To re-iterate: celebrate diversity - don't look to "cure" it!
Jeff (who will now refrain from posting further on this subject since it's obvious that some won't ever understand.)
Some of you really don't get it!
The notion that being gay is somehow wrong and that therefore "one day there might be a cure" is just plain wrong.
There is nothing "wrong" with being gay. Nothing whatsoever. What's wrong are attitudes (and unfortunately actions) towards gays.
There's no cure needed.
What we have is, on average across the U.S., ~4% of the population who are gay. The number could be higher due to the nature of the surveys used to gather those figures, but it's probably no less than that. So gays are a minority. Why would the majority want to rid itself of such amazing diversity by even contemplating a "cure"? The mind boggles.
Let's look at it another way. It is estimated that between 2-6% of the American population are natural redheads. So there's roughly the same number of redheads as gays (and some of both.) In the case of redheads we have identified the causal gene(s). So we have the same size minority population for which we know the cause. Why not suggest investing in genetic engineering to purge society of the scourge that is redheads?
What? Dumb idea? Of course it is.
It's one of the "so many reasons" that I nominated DIYer's post for the 2014 dumbass award.
To re-iterate: celebrate diversity - don't look to "cure" it!
Jeff (who will now refrain from posting further on this subject since it's obvious that some won't ever understand.)
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
As for calling a future prediction dumbass, Jeff, you've done the same yourself. Back on S&V forum, you and Deacon had an exchange about religion vs science (the side that you support). On that thread, you wrote that science will have answers. Deacon replied, "That right there is a faith my friend.", meaning that you put your faith on science where as Deacon puts his on God. You see, Jeff, you've made a future prediction too, happened to be a quite bold one. By calling my future prediction dubmass, perhaps you shot yourself on the foot.
I don't remember calling it a "cure". That's your invention, Jeff. Perhaps that's what goes on in your mind. At least you could have asked for clarification if you aren't sure what someone meant. I would say you assume too much.JeffMackwood said:
As for calling a future prediction dumbass, Jeff, you've done the same yourself. Back on S&V forum, you and Deacon had an exchange about religion vs science (the side that you support). On that thread, you wrote that science will have answers. Deacon replied, "That right there is a faith my friend.", meaning that you put your faith on science where as Deacon puts his on God. You see, Jeff, you've made a future prediction too, happened to be a quite bold one. By calling my future prediction dubmass, perhaps you shot yourself on the foot.
CMonster
Well-Known Member
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
Here's the quote in question:
I think by adding that last statement, there's an implication that you equate homosexuality to a disability. If one were to go from disabled to not disabled by way of treatment, would they not be cured?
DIYer said:
Here's the quote in question:
DIYer said:
I think by adding that last statement, there's an implication that you equate homosexuality to a disability. If one were to go from disabled to not disabled by way of treatment, would they not be cured?
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
No, what I meant was the advancement of science that makes what was impossible possible. Not that long ago, humans couldn't fly but that became possible. In the same field, it was impossible to travel faster than the speed of sound but no longer. Lets look at botox industry, the chemical wasn't created for the sake of cosmetics business but it was a side benefit of chemical science which now caters to some people's desire to look younger. Do you call wrinkles from aging a sickness? I would like to know if there are parents in the world if given the choice, who wouldn't desire their kid/s to grow up and have offspring so that their line would continue on. If you or Jeff can find them, I'll revise my stance on this thread.
At least you are putting efforts to confirm instead of just assuming. :handgestures-thumbup:CMonster said:
No, what I meant was the advancement of science that makes what was impossible possible. Not that long ago, humans couldn't fly but that became possible. In the same field, it was impossible to travel faster than the speed of sound but no longer. Lets look at botox industry, the chemical wasn't created for the sake of cosmetics business but it was a side benefit of chemical science which now caters to some people's desire to look younger. Do you call wrinkles from aging a sickness? I would like to know if there are parents in the world if given the choice, who wouldn't desire their kid/s to grow up and have offspring so that their line would continue on. If you or Jeff can find them, I'll revise my stance on this thread.
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
I think that in most cases you would find that (unless the child may SUFFER from a debilitating condition) the majority of parents would choose to let the child be the person they were destined to be....I'm sure there would be exceptions but I feel, overwhelmingly I might add, that the majority of parents would not alter the genetics of the child. :twocents-mytwocents: I can honestly say I would not. My oldest son Daniel is on the low/mild end of the autistic spectrum (I've mentioned that he has Asperger's) and I would not go back and change a single thing. Nor would I if it had been predetermined he would be homosexual.
I think that in most cases you would find that (unless the child may SUFFER from a debilitating condition) the majority of parents would choose to let the child be the person they were destined to be....I'm sure there would be exceptions but I feel, overwhelmingly I might add, that the majority of parents would not alter the genetics of the child. :twocents-mytwocents: I can honestly say I would not. My oldest son Daniel is on the low/mild end of the autistic spectrum (I've mentioned that he has Asperger's) and I would not go back and change a single thing. Nor would I if it had been predetermined he would be homosexual.
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
I also might add that the further time goes by without any such ability to alter homosexual genetics (assuming we ever get there) the less it's needed. In the sense that our society is becoming more and more accepting of all kinds of diversity. There will always be racists, bigots, etc but on a whole we ARE MOVING towards becoming a more accepting society. I think choosing to use that ability says more about the strength and/or the abilities of the parents to accept more than anything else.
I also might add that the further time goes by without any such ability to alter homosexual genetics (assuming we ever get there) the less it's needed. In the sense that our society is becoming more and more accepting of all kinds of diversity. There will always be racists, bigots, etc but on a whole we ARE MOVING towards becoming a more accepting society. I think choosing to use that ability says more about the strength and/or the abilities of the parents to accept more than anything else.
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
As understanding and ability regarding genome tinkering advances, I imagine parents will be able to choose all sorts of things in advance for their kids. This may be one of them... homosexuality, all moral beliefs aside, is never going to be more than a small minority of the population. If parents could choose to reduce the likelihood of that sexual preference in favor of that which would place them in the majority (not to mention opening the door wider for grandchildren, something parents have been known to look forward to), I imagine that many would. Some would for moral reasons. Some would for other reasons.
It's just going to be a natural consequence of having the ability to fiddle with the human genetic code.
As understanding and ability regarding genome tinkering advances, I imagine parents will be able to choose all sorts of things in advance for their kids. This may be one of them... homosexuality, all moral beliefs aside, is never going to be more than a small minority of the population. If parents could choose to reduce the likelihood of that sexual preference in favor of that which would place them in the majority (not to mention opening the door wider for grandchildren, something parents have been known to look forward to), I imagine that many would. Some would for moral reasons. Some would for other reasons.
It's just going to be a natural consequence of having the ability to fiddle with the human genetic code.
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
Wow, I missed out a lot when this thread got moved. First off, DIYer, past civilizations were far more accepting of the gay lifestyle than we have ever been. With the greeks, it was part of their culture. Some societies have always been more accepting of it than others. Secondly, I've always felt that it was just the way that some people are born. Who would choose to be gay, knowing all of the stigma's that are associated with it? There may be the odd occurrence where a child is molested that warps their mind to the point that they truly don't know their own sexuality, but I think those numbers are pretty small.
Like others have said, I hope they never try to treat it with a cure if possible. I have a son with Down's, and even though I do feel like I'm going to miss out some stuff a normal boy growing up, I wouldn't change him for anything in the world.
My main point in all of this was, not that Archie had a gay friend, I really thought that was a good addition to the Archie world, but they used the gay friend in a way to sensationalize the story. Has nothing to do with sexual orientation, and everything to do with selling more comic books.
I think Zachary Quinto did it best when he came out. Just a simple I'm Gay and moved the fuck on.
Wow, I missed out a lot when this thread got moved. First off, DIYer, past civilizations were far more accepting of the gay lifestyle than we have ever been. With the greeks, it was part of their culture. Some societies have always been more accepting of it than others. Secondly, I've always felt that it was just the way that some people are born. Who would choose to be gay, knowing all of the stigma's that are associated with it? There may be the odd occurrence where a child is molested that warps their mind to the point that they truly don't know their own sexuality, but I think those numbers are pretty small.
Like others have said, I hope they never try to treat it with a cure if possible. I have a son with Down's, and even though I do feel like I'm going to miss out some stuff a normal boy growing up, I wouldn't change him for anything in the world.
My main point in all of this was, not that Archie had a gay friend, I really thought that was a good addition to the Archie world, but they used the gay friend in a way to sensationalize the story. Has nothing to do with sexual orientation, and everything to do with selling more comic books.
I think Zachary Quinto did it best when he came out. Just a simple I'm Gay and moved the fuck on.
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
Maybe I need to read the story, but I'll stick to and reinforce some of my points that comics have always addressed current topics. Maybe or maybe not to the point where the topics brought up were sensationalized. But if you're the writer trying to convey what makes up Archie's personality, what makes him tick inside, and by doing so makes him more relatable to more readers then by identifying one of or some of his friends as gay, the writer is saying more (in a positive light) about Archie than anything else. And I'm also not going to bemoan the creative talents behind Archie or any other comic book, novel, movie, tv series, etc for piggybacking off of current lightening rod topics to generate stories and buzz. If that means the over sensationalized story catapults DC or Marvel into staying on the shelves or going out of business then publish the damn story.
Maybe I need to read the story, but I'll stick to and reinforce some of my points that comics have always addressed current topics. Maybe or maybe not to the point where the topics brought up were sensationalized. But if you're the writer trying to convey what makes up Archie's personality, what makes him tick inside, and by doing so makes him more relatable to more readers then by identifying one of or some of his friends as gay, the writer is saying more (in a positive light) about Archie than anything else. And I'm also not going to bemoan the creative talents behind Archie or any other comic book, novel, movie, tv series, etc for piggybacking off of current lightening rod topics to generate stories and buzz. If that means the over sensationalized story catapults DC or Marvel into staying on the shelves or going out of business then publish the damn story.
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
And I'm probably splitting hairs Batman, and I come off as Anti-gay here, it's simply not that way. I believe we are only here for a short time, and that you should do what makes you happy. And I also don't think being gay is a disease or a disability that needs to be cured, and I fear for the day that someone comes up with a "cure" for it.
And I'm probably splitting hairs Batman, and I come off as Anti-gay here, it's simply not that way. I believe we are only here for a short time, and that you should do what makes you happy. And I also don't think being gay is a disease or a disability that needs to be cured, and I fear for the day that someone comes up with a "cure" for it.
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
I don't feel that you're coming off as anti-gay in any way, shape, or form. I THINK you and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum as to what ways are acceptable to introduce the topic or if introducing it at all is acceptable. I'm of the belief that it's better to address a topic, get it out there, as a POSITIVE venue to discuss the issue. Than to not address it at all or dismiss it as a non-issue. Because clearly as a society, for better or worse, right NOW, it isn't a non-issue YET. But if reading a Batwoman story (and it's well documented amongst comic fans that Kate Kane/Batwoman is a lesbian) helps to discuss the topics with my children rather than to not discuss it at all. I still say publish the damn story, make the character gay, etc...and BTW you and I are in total agreement as it pertains to a "cure" if anybody feels there needs to be a cure, well then, I just feel sorry for them.
I don't feel that you're coming off as anti-gay in any way, shape, or form. I THINK you and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum as to what ways are acceptable to introduce the topic or if introducing it at all is acceptable. I'm of the belief that it's better to address a topic, get it out there, as a POSITIVE venue to discuss the issue. Than to not address it at all or dismiss it as a non-issue. Because clearly as a society, for better or worse, right NOW, it isn't a non-issue YET. But if reading a Batwoman story (and it's well documented amongst comic fans that Kate Kane/Batwoman is a lesbian) helps to discuss the topics with my children rather than to not discuss it at all. I still say publish the damn story, make the character gay, etc...and BTW you and I are in total agreement as it pertains to a "cure" if anybody feels there needs to be a cure, well then, I just feel sorry for them.
Re: do or did you read archie comics? warning! Spoiler alert
We're not as far apart as you think we are Chris. I have no problem discussing it, having it be a part of the story line, etc, I just dislike it when it becomes so sensationalized. Like that Archie died saving his gay friend. I feel, and it sounds like it's just me lol, that more emphasis was put on the gay part of the story than Archie dying. I've discussed with my kids at length about why do some girls like girls and some boys like boys, and I always end the conversation that I will love them no matter what, and that I just want them to be happy in life.
At the end of the day, it's good to discuss things like this with our kids. I'd rather them hear from me than a comic book. :happy-smileygiantred: (And that last part was my feeble attempt at humor.)
We're not as far apart as you think we are Chris. I have no problem discussing it, having it be a part of the story line, etc, I just dislike it when it becomes so sensationalized. Like that Archie died saving his gay friend. I feel, and it sounds like it's just me lol, that more emphasis was put on the gay part of the story than Archie dying. I've discussed with my kids at length about why do some girls like girls and some boys like boys, and I always end the conversation that I will love them no matter what, and that I just want them to be happy in life.
At the end of the day, it's good to discuss things like this with our kids. I'd rather them hear from me than a comic book. :happy-smileygiantred: (And that last part was my feeble attempt at humor.)