• Welcome to The Audio Annex! If you have any trouble logging in or signing up, please contact 'admin - at - theaudioannex.com'. Enjoy!
  • HTTPS (secure web browser connection) has been enabled - just add "https://" to the start of the URL in your address bar, e.g. "https://theaudioannex.com/forum/"
  • Congratulations! If you're seeing this notice, it means you're connected to the new server. Go ahead and post as usual, enjoy!
  • I've just upgraded the forum software to Xenforo 2.0. Please let me know if you have any problems with it. I'm still working on installing styles... coming soon.

How to prove there is a difference between amps?

What the about the old audio myth, that an amplifier that doubles in power as impedance lowers. Like the Momentum amplifier does, is a superior amplifier compared that one that only goes up by say 1.5x instead of by 2x. Or is it just a numbers game manipulated by amp manf. to make their look better on paper?

As always, its a numbers game.

It is physically impossible in the known universe to have any amplifier exactly double its power at half the impedance if you use the "full power" wattage as at the point just before clipping at the higher impedance. For instance, if you have an amplifier that just starts to clip at 200 watts into an 8 ohm load, it is physically impossible to expect that amplifier to produce 400 watts into a 4 ohm load at the clipping point. This is because of voltage losses in the driver stage mostly and voltage sag on the rails which power the output stage.

Therefore manufacturers who want to have a rating which neatly "doubles" at each halving of impedance pick a wattage rating which is somewhat less than the point of clipping as the wattage rating at the higher impedance. So the above amplifier would be "rated" at perhaps 175 watts; it would be able to produce 350 watts into 4 ohms at clipping. Bada bing, an amplifier which "doubles its power exactly into lower impedances".

The SAE amplifier comes closer to the "ideal" than other amplifiers by having a separate power supply which only powers the driver stage which has a higher voltage than the power supply which powers the main rails. But even with this extra power supply, it only lowers the differential between losses at different impedances; it doesn't erase the difference.

That is why you don't often see amplifiers advertised as exactly doubling their power into halving impedances; manufacturers would rather rate their amplifiers at a higher wattage overall, and take the hit at lower impedances. Customers are more impressed at an overall higher wattage rating than if an amplifier can double its power.
 
That Momentum amp is pretty sweet with the copper heatsinks, I also love the look of Pass Labs amps. Boulder amps are kind of plain in a overbuilt aluminum way (the owner owns an aluminum mine I believe). MBL from Germany makes some amps that are way too big and have too much bling for me, but they would probably work for Floyd Mayweather.
 
I didn't realize the Dan D'Agostino had gone out on his own and was doing his own thing. That's probably because I haven't given a crap about the esoteric stuff in many years. It's sexy but I will never be able to afford it and even if I could don't know that I would now that I know better, or certainly have trusted sources that I believe.
 
Brett D'agostino, Dan's son has his own class amp company. http://bscaudio.com
For some reason his son's amps and preamps remind of Dr. Who's villain the CyberMen. Not in a good way either, kind of lumpy and alien looking to me.
 
Last edited:
Brett D'agostino, Dan's son has his own class amp company. http://bscaudio.com
For some reason his son's amps and preamps remind of Dr. Who's villain the CyberMen. Not in a good way either, kind of lumpy and alien looking to me.
That thing is butt ugly! I also noticed that the electronic parts themselves are pretty generic/borderline cheap and the wiring and layout is not all that clean. A clean layout is absolutely necessary if the lowest noise and distortion has any hope of being realized.

A thought on the seeming fad of separate chassis for the main electronics and power supply......if it were all that important, how the heck does Audio Precision make state of the art testing gear which must be orders of magnitude higher in performance in order to be a piece of test equipment, while not using a separate power supply box? The answer of course is that there is absolutely no need to separate the power supply from the electronics as long as everything is well designed in the first place.

But that wouldn't be quite as glamorous would it?
 
Besides the quality of discrete components used, doesn't the physical layout of the circuits contribute to the overall performance and sound quality?
 
Besides the quality of discrete components used, doesn't the physical layout of the circuits contribute to the overall performance and sound quality?
Like I mentioned above, physical layout is absolutely critical if the best performance has any hope of being realized. That cannot be stressed enough. You can have the best parts and the best design on the planet, but a poor layout can make trash out of the result.

The component that I was referring to looked to have a relatively poor layout from the pictures that were on that website. A mess of wires going every which way (and indeed the necessity of having discrete wires at all for a lot of things) is a sure fire recipe for poor performance which includes higher noise, and particularly higher distortion than would be possible from a cleaner layout. If you look at the insides of many (even high end and very high end) components, you will see this rats nest of wires.

Printed circuit board layout is also extremely critical if lowest distortion and noise is to be realized. A difference in length of a current path of .001" between two parts can make a huge difference.
 
Any thoughts or heard anything on Sanders Magtech amp or Carvers Magnetic Field amps? A lot of people like these at the Planer Asylum because speakers like my Magnepan 3.6 soak up power like a sponge. I'm going to try and go active and vertically bi-amp my Maggies. With a powerful amp on the bass and a Parasound A23 for the mid/treble.

Sorry for thread Hijack.
 
It went well. We didn't end up doing the amp comparison which didn't break my heart since I was a little leery of the switching mechanism that was described to me. I got to hear JTR's new Captivator 4000ULF, a dual-18" ported beast tuned to 10 Hz. I was seriously worried about the structural integrity of the homes this was played in. I had a nice little conversation with Josh Ricci of data-bass.com which was pretty cool. One of the crawl stops was a basement HT with low ceilings. The guy was able to put his projector behind the screen so the picture still looked great even with all the lights on in the HT plus there was very little fan noise and no heat from the projector.

Here's a link to the AVS thread if anyone is interested. I suggest reading the first five posts on the first page and then skipping to the 33rd or 34th page of the thread...
 
I didn't quite get it. Was this an HT crawl through people personal HTs? With that many attendees?
That's awesome. And...I think I need to move to that area. Does everyone's new house just come with a ridiculous setup like that? Sheesh
 
I didn't quite get it. Was this an HT crawl through people personal HTs? With that many attendees?
That's awesome. And...I think I need to move to that area. Does everyone's new house just come with a ridiculous setup like that? Sheesh

Yeah, we even had custom designed t-shirts (for purchase) and name tags. Around 35-40 people went to see John Wick 2 at a theater in downtown KC then they walked to my place for a kick-off party on Friday night. The first crawl stops on Saturday started at 9:00 am and we had three groups that cycled through eight theaters. There was a bit of driving - two of the theaters were over 30 minutes away from where the other six were clustered. If we do this again we'll probably spread it out over two days - maybe five theaters on Saturday (with a group lunch at one guy's house - he has some cool stuff at his place plus he makes awesome bbq), and three stops on Sunday. It took almost three hundred emails among the hosts plus that > 30 page thread on AVS to organize the event.
 
What's with the dude and the 8 UM 18-22 Ultimax's? Is there a law of diminishing returns after 4 or something?
Those are some awesome setups.
 
Back
Top