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Infinite Baffle in the Batcave?

Discussion in 'DIY Projects' started by Batman, Oct 10, 2010.

  1. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator Famous

    Okay Flint, I'm calling you out since you're the resident expert on the subject. I've been contemplating constructing an IB for a few months now and I'm REALLY beginning to get the itch for a number of reasons.

    1st and most important to me anyway, is I love to build things and reap the rewards for my effort, but this go round I want to have a bout with the speaker/audio side of things in contrast to constantly making cosmetic tweaks (as fun as it is, it gets old and I would hate for the room to be "overdone")...

    2nd, is as much as I love the performance of the PB13 Ultra, sigh, I hate the way that thing looks in the front of the room. I consider it the one of the most unsightly elements in my room and basically live with it because the performance of the sub FAR outweighs my dislike of it visually...

    3rd is I have someone really hot for my PB13 for a fair price for both parties that would fund some of the items I need to begin the process of building an IB...

    If anyone else has anything valid to add by all means please join in. The only IBs I've heard were Flint's and Snowman's...
  2. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator Famous

    My initial concerns are few but there could be more that I'm not even aware are present because of my inexperience in this arena.

    1st, When I sent Flint the dimensions of my room during the build, he determined the "least worst" spot is along the front wall ~4' in from EITHER corner. My only real options for an IB would be 1 or more IBs in 3 maybe 4 locations either in the right front corner or along the right wall in 3 available spots (pictures and cubic dimensions could be easily posted).

    2nd concern is, to me this is only worth the effort if I can outdo the performance of the PB13 with reasonable effort...
  3. DIYer

    DIYer Well-Known Member Famous

    Uh oh, bat's been bitten... :eek:

    by upgrade bug.
  4. PaulyT

    PaulyT Behind the Curtain Staff Member Administrator Moderator Superstar

    Doesn't an IB require substantial space behind the drivers? Where would the back of yours open up to? I could be wrong about this... Just wondering about location since you're kinda boxed in between outer walls, ceiling, etc. Maybe in the front right opening into that work/storage space?
  5. Zing

    Zing Retired Admin Famous

  6. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator Famous

    If a lot of volume/space is required that area starts just in front of the rack on the right wall and wraps around to about the 1/3 mark across the front wall on the opposite side of the theater, so yes that was my thinking, there is also the closet housing the backside of the rack that is ~6x8x8 but I'm not sure that would do it...
  7. Flint

    Flint "Do you know who I am?" Superstar

    You have a large room, so at leat 4x 15" woofers, or even better 6x 15" woofers, are needed. I really like the Titanic 15" woofers from Dayton/Parts Express, but there are some killer 18" woofers out there which would work well. You need well over 200 cubic feet of volume behind the woofers without any open connection back into the room - thus the area behind the rack isnt a good option as sound can pass through the rack.

    You'll also need a ton of power, professional power amps tend to be the best options, and a good crossover/EQ (I love the Behringer DCS2496).

    In total, expect to spend at least $2,500 fo a room that big to sound amazing.
  8. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator Famous

    Damn! I was hoping to hear something like 2x15" woofers or 4x12' woofers. Not 6x15" would be ideal!! :shock: But you've definitely got my attention now... What type of amps would you recommend for this app?
  9. Flint

    Flint "Do you know who I am?" Superstar

    Keep in mind, your room is more than double the volume of mine. I would prefer to have four 15" woofers if it were possible.

    I found a better option for 8x 15" woofers which cost about the same as 6 of the Titanic 15" and will get you about 7dB SPL more headroom.

    For amps, I like prosound amps, like the QSC RMX2450. Two of those with 8 woofers would be perfect.
  10. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator Famous

    How important is it that this storage area be sealed from any other adjacent areas in the rest of the basement? Also due to an HVAC duct there is a 10-12" gap above the wall separating the storage area from the closet behind my rack. I take it that some effort should be made to seal that off...
  11. Flint

    Flint "Do you know who I am?" Superstar

    The back area can completely open to anywhere at all, just not open to the HT.
  12. Zing

    Zing Retired Admin Famous

    A semi-related question:

    More often than not, when a person mentions multiple subs (excluding stereo subs), the ensuing comments all relate to 1 sub is usually enough, it's difficult to correctly set up and dial in more than 1 sub and the almost-proverbial 1 great sub is better than multiple not-so-great subs. In short - if Bats had said he was going to buy 6 Ultras, everyone would try to talk him out of it.

    So what is it about IB subs that makes it, perhaps, the exception that proves the rule? Why are 4 or 6 drivers OK in an IB conifuration but 2 or more Ultras are a no-no?
  13. Flint

    Flint "Do you know who I am?" Superstar

    I am recommending one sub which happens to have as many as 8 drivers and two amplifiers.
  14. Flint

    Flint "Do you know who I am?" Superstar

    By the way, the argument for a single sub is when a significantly better sub can be purchased for the same price as two lesser subs being considered. If you already have one of the absolute best subs available, then going to two would be the next logical choice if you really need more bass (most people don't need more bass at that point).
  15. Yesfan70

    Yesfan70 I'm famous now bitches! vvvvv Famous

    Flint beat me to it. Pretty much, Bats will still have "one sub", but his sub will have 6-8 drivers in it. Sort of the same thing with a standard MTM bookshelf speaker having two mids.

    Looking forward to this build Bats. Placement for mine is going to be pretty easy since I only have that one closet to deal with.
  16. TitaniumTroy

    TitaniumTroy Well-Known Member

    Flint, on a scale of 0-100, how much of an improvement would an infinite baffle sub be vs say two SVS Ultra's? With a given being both were properly set up in a suitable type room. I know this question is subjective, but how about a best guess?

    Bat's, what did was your opinion of Snowman's and Flint's IB sub vs yours or any other hi-fi sub systems you have heard?
  17. Flint

    Flint "Do you know who I am?" Superstar

    I believe a properly designed, setup, and implimented IB subwoofer will easily outperform any moderate-sized box sub system like the PB13-Ultra (or pair of them) by at least 2 times to 10 times, depending on the content. Some content will sound bland and overly boomy regardless of the subs, like most Rap/Hip-Hop music which has a ton of bass in it, but it is typically bad sounding bass.
  18. Razz

    Razz Well-Known Member

    this is a bit odd to me..... Bats, the SVS ultra-13 in your room may not look as good as you want, but I have never heard such a bass response in any room. If you don't like the "look" of it then maybe you should design a cover of some sort and make it look like part of the cave. There are many transparent materials that you can hide that beast in your room with.

    Honestly man.... That thing works perfectly in your room and gives a complete "pressurized" feel to the sub. It's awesome!!!! It bested (2) Dynaudio 500 subs!!!!!

    My advise, don't bother with an IB sub. Just hide the SVS with some transparent get up. Don't try and fix what's NOT broken. You already tried an upgrade to the dual Dynaudios.... and that was a failure. Keep the SVS..... If you want to get crazy then buy a second SVS and make them BOTH hidden into and part of the cave.
  19. PaulyT

    PaulyT Behind the Curtain Staff Member Administrator Moderator Superstar

    Ah, but if he doesn't try it, he'll never know. ;)
  20. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator Famous

    Razz I understand, completely. For now you haven't necessarily talked me out of it, but I haven't completely talked myself into it either!! It's clear that to perform well, more woofers and therefore more cost is going to be a good bit higher than initially anticipated. But I attribute that to my lack of knowledge in this area. If nothing else it probably will delay this project a bit until I can decide if, I have the available wall space, have the ambition to pull this off w/o it turning into a 8 week "test", and most importantly put the funds together. Perhaps I may wait until Flint has an opportunity to visit the area someday and help me decide on all of these things. I definitely am not in the hurry I thought I was when I started this thread... :|

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