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Is it finally time to declare the Rock and Roll era over?

Flint said:
I see more apathy than anything else in the majority of today's youth - and that's not an insult. I get the impression that they don't believe there is much they can really do to make any sort of difference since their parents and grandparents have been killing themselves to make a difference, yet everything seems as bad or worse than it ever was. I say this after many conversations with my children, their friends, people in their circles, and children of co-workers and other friends. I am intentionally being general here. It isn't that kids don't care, they just don't feel anything can really be done.
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One day, the Millennials will realize that they out-number the Boomers and stop believing that they have no power. The shift in demographics from older, evangelical, rural/suburban whites to more secular, urban, multi-cultural youth is going to make a huge impact once these people start voting in numbers. The pendulum that has been swinging to the right for four decades will start swinging back the other way. I expect that we will see a reduction in military and security state spending, single-payer health insurance and a general strengthening of social programs. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. In fact, I think the current administration may be the beginning of the end for the GOP as a dominant political force unless it finds a way to reinvent itself and move back toward Eisenhower.
 
This week I got to spend some time with a bunch of my old music biz friends, many of whom are still in that world. I brought up the idea that the R&R era has passed and it was time to just stop trying to keep it alive - almost always failing miserably. At first they all thought I was fucking insane, a few got quite angry about that idea. Then some of them started making my argument for my theory and became strong supporters and only two refused to let go. Those two have careers which depend on their being a market for R&R music, so perhaps they were defending their livelihoods, but no one could give an example of R&R being a relevant, engaging, exciting, and life-changing thing over the past decade. What few glimpses of greatness that came along fell far short of the great stuff that happened in the 1970s and culturally, R&R has absolutely no influence at all.

Another bunch of white guys in leather with tattoos playing songs reminiscent of the 60s, 70s and 80s are not shaping culture, society, changing youth's lives, or contributing to any form of revolution at all. Even the feeble attempts at the angst of Punk fall in deaf ears. There is nothing left to shock us - and most of what R&R was about was tearing down old standards and limitations - but there are no limits left. R&R only very rarely built up something new. It was a genre which gave popular voice to destroying the old world order in order to bring in the new, but it didn't inspire what was new. Merely cleared the way.

So... maybe this is a good time for the world to just accept the fact that the figurative war of our youth which drove our angst and changed certain aspects of society is essentially dead. Put a fork in it and enjoy the afterglow.
 
Haywood said:
Which leads to the problem of finding great new music.
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I think there is a TON of great new music. But it isn't the music of our youth. Take Van Halen's last album with David Lee Roth. Had it come out in 1985, it would have been their best selling album and set the definitive standard for Van Halen and the era. It is an exceptionally great Van Halen album of the style we all pine for. However, it drew average responses from critics and it sold okay, but not great. It definitely didn't blow up the charts. The times have changed and there is no longer a common thread in the music which draws tens of millions of fans together like it R&R could back in the day.

If anyone is expecting to find the next "Ok Radio" or "Smells Like Teen Spirit", they are not going to find it. There is certainly music just as good being produced - probably much better music coming out, really. But it cannot truly be new and remain in that genre. What's left? The artists really breaking new ground are too avant garde for our tastes, and the artists creating great tasty rock sound too much like the past, and if we want the past we already have it on our phones and streaming services.

If you want a mix tape of great NEW music which resembles your favorite AOR station from 1983, it is out there. There are tons of artists making that style of music and doing a bang-up job. But it doesn't move us because we already discovered that music in 1983 so the thrill of hearing something new is gone.

And that's my point. Another great band which gives off the feel of Led Zeplin, The Who, Kansas, Styx, Nirvana, Elvis Costello, Tom Petty, or whatever, will just make us want to listen to Led Zepplin, et al, rather than the new band. It needs to become "finished" so artists are either covering it or reminding us how great it used to be.

We need to stop thinking the next big rock band is around the corner. I mean, U2 got the Rolling Stone record of the year... U2!!! They haven't been any good for over two decades, but they are sure a hell of a lot of fun to watch in concert. That doesn't make their music worth a shit.

So, rock needs to go the direction of the Blues, Jazz, Show Tunes, Classical, Western, and so on.

Time to just accept that we can never go back.
 
Haywood said:
Which leads to the problem of finding great new music.
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To me as least, that is not a problem at all since I feel no need to find new music, especially considering the quagmire all forms of music are experiencing. Rock, Jazz, Classical - you name it - essentially everything worth saying musically has already been said, sometimes multiple times over. Sure, someone might hit on some "new" form of music which truly revolutionizes everything sometime in the future. But in the meantime, I'm happy listening to the absolute wealth of music which has already been written. When something worthwhile comes along, I'm sure I will hear about it, and can check it out for myself.
 
While I continue to acquire new releases, by far the greatest pleasure I have had in the last few years is discovering artists and groups whose music I missed the first time through. This might be from ten years ago. Or twenty. Or fifty. Or even close to a hundred. Yesterday I was listening to some jazz from the late '20s that I'd never heard before and I couldn't stop my foot from tapping along to the beat. Today, for the first time, I listened to some Jon Batiste & Stay Human, Social Music (2013). And two days ago I "discovered" Hank Ballard and The Midnighters and their amazing '50s R&R music.

Heck, PaulyT just bought his first Heart album the other day!

The need to acquire new music is strong for me. Luckily that new music can be quite old.

Jeff
 
I saw that Bono is on my side of this argument (and he's taking heat for it). Apparent he said the below in a Rolling Stone Magazine interview:

Wenner: Do you believe it [that a “rock & roll revolution is round the corner”]?

Bono: I think music has gotten very girly. And there are some good things about that, but hip-hop is the only place for young male anger at the moment—and that's not good. When I was 16, I had a lot of anger in me. You need to find a place for it and for guitars, whether it is with a drum machine—I don't care. The moment something becomes preserved, it is fucking over. You might as well put it in formaldehyde. In the end, what is rock & roll? Rage is at the heart of it. Some great rock & roll tends to have that, which is why the Who were such a great band. Or Pearl Jam. Eddie has that rage.​
 
This is where classical differs greatly from other genres of music. (Well maybe jazz...) True, the compositions aren't changing, but with classical the composition is a framework; much of the art in it is in the performance. There are always new performances coming out that are different enough (within the structures of classical interpretation, which are very subtle compared to pop/rock music) that things continue to be new and interesting.
 
PaulyT said:
This is where classical differs greatly from other genres of music. (Well maybe jazz...) True, the compositions aren't changing, but with classical the composition is a framework; much of the art in it is in the performance. There are always new performances coming out that are different enough (within the structures of classical interpretation, which are very subtle compared to pop/rock music) that things continue to be new and interesting.
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I believe that once the current artists have died, we will see this happen with R&R music. We already have a large global business for professionally managed cover bands who each focus on a given genre or narrow period of rock. Maybe some day there will be concert halls where the patrons will support the continuation of R&R performances with a profession band of highly trained musicians.
 
PaulyT said:
This is where classical differs greatly from other genres of music. (Well maybe jazz...) True, the compositions aren't changing, but with classical the composition is a framework; much of the art in it is in the performance. There are always new performances coming out that are different enough (within the structures of classical interpretation, which are very subtle compared to pop/rock music) that things continue to be new and interesting.
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True, classical has the ability to re-invent itself with existing compositions via new performances and interpretations. Rock musicians can cover existing songs, but only Zeppelin can do Stairway to Heaven. Then those songs get played to death.
 
Flint said:
I believe that once the current artists have died, we will see this happen with R&R music. We already have a large global business for professionally managed cover bands who each focus on a given genre or narrow period of rock. Maybe some day there will be concert halls where the patrons will support the continuation of R&R performances with a profession band of highly trained musicians.
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That is depressing as hell.
 
rammisframmis said:
True, classical has the ability to re-invent itself with existing compositions via new performances and interpretations. Rock musicians can cover existing songs, but only Zeppelin can do Stairway to Heaven. Then those songs get played to death.
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I don't know... when the Wilson Sisters did Stairway to Heaven at the Lincoln Center Honors event, the world took notice.
 
There is always something to rebel against. I expect to see a huge backlash against the establishment in the next ten years.
 
Flint said:
But will the next revolution need its own soundtrack?
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I don't see why not. I think a lot of what you are talking about is more related to the implosion of the music business than anything else. I know of at least one band whose first album had two songs on the Billboard Hot 100 and got dropped by their label. For obvious reasons, the record labels now have no interest in taking risks or cultivating new acts. This has driven a lot of new music to YouTube and other venues, which makes things a lot different than they used to be. Some of these acts have done very well. Post Modern Jukebox, Pentatonix and Lindsay Stirling all come to mind as artists who found some degree of success this way. I realize that those acts do not quite fit into the box we are talking about, but the point remains.

It is harder than ever for a new band to get exposure, unless they are yet another shitty pop act contrived by some souless shit at what now passes for a record label. Airplay? Nope. Clear Channel owns nearly everything and their stations are a steady stream of older music and crappy pop. Subscription services? Sure. Some of the music is there, but it doesn't help if you don't know what you are looking for. In short, the entire music scene was permanently and completely fucked by Napster and I'm not sure what the fix is.
 
Here in Manila music is somewhat hurting to my ears. I get to listen to radio music daily on the road most of the time but i could hardly find what i like. The music djs dish out finds me not in good taste. So i have my radio tuned mostly at am band for news and commentaries instead of fm music.

I think i am older than most members here so i have listened to most of the old genres in music and i know what i like. But nowadays here almost no djs would spin those tunes anymore. And the new music really is not for my ears.
 
Is Rock and Roll dead? I think, just like all musical genre's of the past, it's not truly dead, but it is on life support.

Here are some random bullet points on my thoughts on the subject
  • The music industry is too fractured right now -- there are TOO many options for someone to give something really new new a try.
  • The "youth" are too politically-correct.
  • There isn't a "good" medium to get the new music out there. The Beatles had Radio when it was actually listened to. Nirvana had MTV. YouTube is there, but there is again too much content.
  • Music is considered a disposable commodity. My perception is, as mentioned earlier, that most people consider it akin to wallpaper -- it's there, but you don't really "look" ("listen") to it
  • Rap had the ability to become the new "Rock and Roll". There was a time when bands like NWA, Public Enemy and even Ice-T had a message of the need for serious change. Now, at least from I know/hear, Rap is at the stage in its life cycle where Heavy Metal was when White Lion came on the scene.
  • I also agree, the basic arrangement of a singer, drummer, bass, rhythm and lead guitar has pretty much been played out. But there are bands out there pushing the envelope. Sleepytime Gorilla Museum comes to mind. I think it's possible that at SOME point, a band like this will hit on something that becomes the new zeitgeist
  • It's too easy to access the old music. With Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, kids already have access to TONS of music that they don't need to go out find/create something new.

I'm sure I'll think of more points, but this was what came to mind on first reflection.

So yes Virginia, Rock isn't dead, but it's not exactly alive either...
 
TKoP said:
I also agree, the basic arrangement of a singer, drummer, bass, rhythm and lead guitar has pretty much been played out. But there are bands out there pushing the envelope. Sleepytime Gorilla Museum comes to mind. I think it's possible that at SOME point, a band like this will hit on something that becomes the new zeitgeist
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I totally agree that SGM is a modern example innovating with the classic rock and roll lineup and genre, but like so many other great bands pushing that envelope (Think You Scientist, Deerhunter, etc.), the larger audience is not interested in having to work to understand what the fuck is going on when they press play. People who intentionally listen to music, like many of us, those bands are amazing and new, but if that music was played on every rock station / streaming service for a week the world would freak out and revolt.

I see this especially in the sub-genre of Power Pop. Superfans, of which I am one, keep discovering new bands who do a good job of creating new power pop music, all of us fans cannot help saying, "Well, they aren't Jellyfish, are they?" The entire Rock & Roll uber-genre has the same problem. I don't expect any band will light up the world the way the classics did in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. If you pay attention, the big bands were most prolific in the 70s and completely peaked in the early 80s. Since then the number of lasting artists who might someday be "classic" arriving every year is dwindling rapidly. At this point I cannot think of any over the past 5 to 10 years.
 
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