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Is there a 12" small cab $500 sub (new or used) worth buying?

Thanks, Flint. Yes indeed the SB-2000 is one I have my eye on. Been reading some impressions. I hate that front grill though. [sigh]

Also been reading about the PSB SubSeries 450, which is still quite small but a good deal more money. [sigh]
A more attractive design though, imo.
 
Thanks, Flint. Yes indeed the SB-2000 is one I have my eye on. Been reading some impressions. I hate that front grill though. [sigh]

Also been reading about the PSB SubSeries 450, which is still quite small but a good deal more money. [sigh]
A more attractive design though, imo.

What are buying, a subwoofer or a fashion statement?
 
PSA, no Tom at SVS, SVS bought out...yet one more thing I knew nothing about. I'm crawling back under my rock, life was simpler.
 
I've been putting off mentioning that same thing. Has anyone here actually dealt with SVS since they were bought-out (not even sure that "bought out" is the right term)?
i did, but that was simply because i bought it after knowing tom left.

i bought the sb-1000 also because it was within my budget. i dont have an extravagant budget, and/or cant really afford the space. i was living in an apartment back then, and mostly the same story with the condo unit.

anyways, i am happy with the sb-1000, but as always, envy the next big step.

it cant go down further than 32hz tho, i can tell you that.

that dredd scene people say you hear in the movie, subsonic? yup. i cant hear it on mine.

oh, on a sidenote, i was going to get a hsu research instead at one point, before this came out.
 
What are buying, a subwoofer or a fashion statement?
Yeah, well something as big as a sub is equal parts furniture and machine, especially in a rowhouse in a dense city. So design is quite important to me.

But Lady Luck has stepped in! After nearly a year of intermittent checking of ebay and Audiogon for rare deals, late last night I found a "New, Other" condition (open box) PSB Subseries 450 on ebay for just a couple bills more than the SB-2000. 12" driver, 400/1000W amp, two 10" passive radiators, approx 16" all the way around, and a very slick design. If I can get a hundred or two for my Dayton 10", all the better.

Thanks all for your great advice and sharing your experiences. I'll report back after I get it all set up.
 
Well I have been using the PSB Subseries 450 for about a month and it's been a truly an eye opening experience. I now see what a fully capable sub can do, wowee! But bad news: it's too good / too much. I don't think I can use it. Having a sub that can go down another 15 Hz or so has revealed what appears to be a massive room mode anomaly: I get a huge spike at about the 30-40 Hz range. With just about every action or sci fi movie we've played, the PSB rattles everything on the first floor and alarms everyone in the house - it's CRAZY! It's way beyond "Whoa, that's cool!", and more like "Holy sh!t turn that thing OFF!" And if I turn it down low enough to get the rumble frequencies to a more natural level, then all the other frequencies the sub handles are way too low.

I haven't had time to set up my Radio Shack meter and REW yet, and won't get rid of the PSB until I am able to at least do that. But I did have to pull it out and put my 10" Dayton back in service just to be able to watch movies normally again. The last straw was while watching Star Wars VII last week, during which I actually could not turn down the PSB low enough to make it listenable. Even at the lowest volume setting it was just B-A-N-A-N-A-S. (I should mention I have to set my Marantz AVR to boost the sub frequencies by 6dB to activated sub's Auto On at lower volumes -- but still.)

I know improper placement may be a factor here, but I have exactly one location I can put a sub. I guess I could employ my Marantz's Audyssey MultEQ XT, but I remember not loving what it did to my sound when I first tried it (it's always off now), and not sure I want to sacrifice my overall balance just to get a few more Hz on the low end.

Feel free to chime in with any thoughts, rants or insults (as always). :)
 
I know at one time, SVS sold a unit by velodyne that you could put in the line between your sub and your receiver and increase or decrease certain frequencies. I just looked, and it doesn't seem to be sold by them anymore, but I use one and it does help tame the frequencies that need tamed. Maybe someone will have something similar to suggest. Another thought, and probably cheaper, is to use bass traps, which you can build yourself or buy online. GIK is a company that sells them pretty reasonable and has good customer service.
 
First off, clearly you had it turned up WAY too high. A sub should never stand out and when setup properly will hardly be noticeable until a serious boom occurs in the soundtrack. If I were you I'd start with calibrating the thing before assuming you cannot use it.

Second, room resonances are a real thing and without addressing them with acoustic treatments (which entails installing somewhat large bass traps and resonators) you can often remedy things by moving the sub and/or listening position. There are dozens of methods for finding the most ideal placement, but my favorite if the sub is light enough is to put the sub on the listening position seat and playing a test tone (pink noise) then crawling around the room where there is space for the subwoofer so your head is near where the woofer would be and just listening for the least boomy location. After a hour of that, if your significant other doesn't call the funny farm for a pickup, you will know what to listen for and have a good idea of where place the sub. If you want to move the listening position, do the same with potential seating locations while the sub is in the best place otherwise. This is a pretty effective approach.

Third, acoustic treatments are far better at remedying room resonant problems than just about anything else. A large bass trap in one or more corner would help, as would a resonant panel trap (I have three in my HT). These either take some education and work on your part to build and install yourself, or you can buy them from any of dozens of great suppliers. GIK Acoustics is one of my favorites in the more affordable category.

Fourth, as a last resort you can use a notch EQ filter to just take out of the subwoofer signal any information at the specific resonances of the room. This can be helpful, but it also means never hearing those frequencies even when you should (like a synth note at that specific frequency in an EDM or Rap style song). Some receivers have advanced auto-tuning algorithms to program these filters, or you can buy a processor and program it yourself. Doing so would require some measurement tools, so if you are buying those anyway, you can use them to also improve placement and even improve the overall sound of the entire system.

That's my advice.

Additional potential issue to address... it is entire possible that the perception of resonances is caused more by the crossover range needing tuning where poor crossover adjustments have caused the range in the one to two octaves around the crossover frequency being cancelled out and suddenly below that range the output is robust and strong. Properly tuning a crossover isn't always easy, but it can make a world of difference. Heeman and I spent half a day tuning his and found a happy middle ground between perceived performance and measured performance, and we were using a calibrated mic, RTA, and test tones to do it. It makes a difference.

Cheers!
 
One of the lessons learned when calibrating my subs with Flint, was not only the subs themselves, but the integration with the other speakers in the system. We measured and measured and measured and then listened and listened and listened then repeated this multiple times. I now find myself boosting the LFE depending on the material I am listening to, however understanding where the correct calibration point is.

Once you calibrate that sub, you will understand the impact of the room and how to work around it.

No such thing as a sub that is to powerful ...............
 
Flints advice is spot on. I have the SVS PB NSD 12/2 that Jeff flipped that Zing previously owned. It's a monster sub and I'm not even coming close to using it to its full potential and I'm a bass head. I have my receiver set at its lowest of -15 and the gain on the sub is at 3 when it goes to 10. I used to crank it to 5 but it was way to powerful and overwhelmed the speakers. Flint is correct you want your sub to be unnoticed until it's really needed then it hits hard just when needed.

What surprising (especially since Flint hasn't mentioned it) but for a cheap sub with great performance and if your handy with tools think about an infinite baffle sub. Cut holes in the ceiling place dual 12" drivers and an outboard amp and you'll have the performance you require at low cost. Flint has an IB sub in his main home theater and it was AWESOME. Takes no space except in the ceiling and your entire attic is the baffle boxc
 
Hopefully not hijacking the post but just getting caught up. I anticipate getting a decent tax return so I wanted to earmark close to $1,000 for a sub or less. I like the size of the SB-2000 but I am open to PSA as well. Is a sealed or ported option ideal? I'm not sure the pros or cons other than sealed is a smaller enclosure than ported.
 
I prefer the bass extension and sheer output power of ported subs, but they tend to be larger. Personally, I feel the only real benefit to a sealed subwoofer is size. I have yet to hear a high quality small sealed subwoofer which can compete on performance and sound with a similarly prices high quality vented subwoofer.
 
I prefer the bass extension and sheer output power of ported subs, but they tend to be larger. Personally, I feel the only real benefit to a sealed subwoofer is size. I have yet to hear a high quality small sealed subwoofer which can compete on performance and sound with a similarly prices high quality vented subwoofer.
But didn't you just get a sealed SVS?
 
But didn't you just get a sealed SVS?

Yep.... for use in my family room, which is very much a secondary system. It does the job of adding some depth to the audio while taking up very little space in my carefully designed room which is primarily intended for visiting with friends, not as my primary listening room.

If this is your primary system and you are trying to get the absolute best sound, I happen to think the best choice for your dollars would be a larger ported subwoofer which will play deeper, louder, and with less distortion. But, if size is more important than absolute performance, then a good sealed subwoofer is still better than no subwoofer at all.
 
Yep.... for use in my family room, which is very much a secondary system. It does the job of adding some depth to the audio while taking up very little space in my carefully designed room which is primarily intended for visiting with friends, not as my primary listening room.

If this is your primary system and you are trying to get the absolute best sound, I happen to think the best choice for your dollars would be a larger ported subwoofer which will play deeper, louder, and with less distortion. But, if size is more important than absolute performance, then a good sealed subwoofer is still better than no subwoofer at all.

Fair enough. I have never had a sub in the system but I worry of overkill in my house. I can see my wife losing her mind if for example a 15" PSA. I am trying to figure out where I'd put the sub. My 75" TV with two towers eats up a lot of the front wall. Can I put it behind me? That would then require a long cable run. I'd prefer up front hence the smaller footprint of the sealed.
 
First off, no sub can inherently overpowered the house. They all have a volume control to turn them down to ensure they are not too loud.

You can place the sub virtually anywhere in the room. A large number of members of this forum have their subs behind the listening position and they get great results. My subs are mounted in the wall at the two upper-rear corners of the HT and the results are stunning. That said, subs are very much impacted by placement and sometimes it can make a huge difference by moving a subwoofer a few feet from the most cosmetically ideal position to an inconvenient position.

All of that said, if you are seriously concerned that strong bass in your home theater is going to be a problem in your household and quality if relationship life, maybe you shouldn't be looking at subwoofers and really enjoy what you've got.
 
First off, no sub can inherently overpowered the house. They all have a volume control to turn them down to ensure they are not too loud.

You can place the sub virtually anywhere in the room. A large number of members of this forum have their subs behind the listening position and they get great results. My subs are mounted in the wall at the two upper-rear corners of the HT and the results are stunning. That said, subs are very much impacted by placement and sometimes it can make a huge difference by moving a subwoofer a few feet from the most cosmetically ideal position to an inconvenient position.

All of that said, if you are seriously concerned that strong bass in your home theater is going to be a problem in your household and quality if relationship life, maybe you shouldn't be looking at subwoofers and really enjoy what you've got.
Ok. I will figure out the placement. Perhaps behind me is my best bet. I need to eventually run my wires in wall to my surrounds. I want to eventually swap out speakers to something higher end. But sub, acoustic treatments are first to get current enjoyment from system
 
A few responses to all your amazing input:

First, yes i know that the PSB is not too powerful. I kinda meant that as a joke. The problem is that -- and I need to verify this sometime by measurement -- the PSB is the first sub I've used that could go so ably below ~40 Hz, such that it revealed a massive room mode with a sub in my preferred aesthetic location. It was definitely not turned up too loud, I ask you all to just trust me on this. In fact it was barely on at all, with the ~60-100 Hz region being way lower than the everything above 100 Hz.

There may be a benefit to this, though: in this location my 10" Dayton probably ends up it going much lower than it otherwise should? Kinda seems that way.

BUT, the hard truth is that I really had no place buying the PSB right now, budget-wise. It was an impulse buy when I saw what I imagined to be a once-in-life open-box deal pop up. It's likely I could get to the bottom of the issue, find the right location and make it work. But I'm sad to say that I have decided to just sell it.

So, bmwuk, feel free to message me if it is indeed something you might be interested in and I'll tell you all I have learned from my research (fwiw). I'll likely be posting to some hifi classified pages in the next couple weeks.

Thanks again to you all for your input. :)

-Brian
 
Okay thanks. I am pending on what to do myself. Probably am looking now at PSA with 5 year warranty and Tom's customer service. We shall see
 
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