Just don't know - Sub calibration

[bmwuk]

You know, in the end with bass, absolute numbers and decibel readings just don't matter all that much. Its essentially subjective, and it is certainly subjective on the part of the people who mixed the film or music in the first place. Personally, I'd just set the crossover to 80Hz and adjust the sub levels, phase, and whatever to whatever sounds best to you at the time. The setting you arrive at will surely change somewhat depending on the film or music you happen to be listening to or how you feel. That may fly in the face of everything you've heard or read, but there is always time to sweat the numbers as you refine how you listen, and how your tastes change (or don't change).

Fair enough but the whole phase idea I'm uncertain with. So I'm not sure I know what will have results with X or Y. So basic ideas and intended results is helpful

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Fair enough but the whole phase idea I'm uncertain with. So I'm not sure I know what will have results with X or Y. So basic ideas and intended results is helpful

Even phase isn't an absolute in all parts of the room. It is as good as can be with the phase position which gives max bass and smoothest bass at the main listening position.

 

[Zing]

Keep in mind that he recently commented on being underwhelmed by the lackluster performance of his new sub. I'd venture to guess that phase may be the culprit.

Correct on small setting and 80hz crossover. I am familiar with a test tone to individual speakers. But not 2 of them. I have a Yamaha receiver. How do I make this magic happen?

This is why using a test disc is ideal. You can play the 80Hz track and it will be played through both front mains and the sub. And also why you'd want to disconnect the other speaker.

Do you own any of these?

Something else that's important to note: I seem to remember reading that your current setup is temporary, as in you just placed your sub somewhere up front to demo it when it first arrived. If that's the case, and later on you move it to another location, you'll change its phase relationship in doing so and will need to adjust it again. So maybe now is a really good time to find its permanent home.

 

[bmwuk]

Keep in mind that he recently commented on being underwhelmed by the lackluster performance of his new sub. I'd venture to guess that phase may be the culprit.




This is why using a test disc is ideal. You can play the 80Hz track and it will be played through both front mains and the sub. And also why you'd want to disconnect the other speaker.

Do you own any of these?

Something else that's important to note: I seem to remember reading that your current setup is temporary, as in you just placed your sub somewhere up front to demo it when it first arrived. If that's the case, and later on you move it to another location, you'll change its phase relationship in doing so and will need to adjust it again. So maybe now is a really good time to find its permanent home.

Yes I own the two of those. Cool will look to see where it will allow me to play fronts and sub on the 80hz signal. The sub is now located where I think the best placement. I was awaiting the outlaw OAW4 in order to place it away from me. It sits in my back left

 

[Randy]

If your speakers are set to "Small" in your bass management, you were likely given the option to select a frequency at which your main speakers transition to your subwoofer. Perhaps 80Hz? This is your crossover (XO) point.

Within the arrangement of your speakers, one of your main speakers is physically closer to your subwoofer than the other main speaker is. For this procedure, you're going to want to generate an 80Hz test tone through your subwoofer AND the main speaker that's closest to the sub. If you need to, disconnect the other speaker.

With an SPL meter in the listening position, generate that 80Hz tone (the internal tones of your pre/pro that you used to set your sub level will work but a test disc would be ideal). While that tone is playing, slowly adjust the phase knob on your sub. Note the readings on the SPL meter. As you *slowly* adjust the knob from one end of its range to the other, you'll notice the SPL goes up and down. Wherever the knob is that generates the highest SPL, leave it there.

It's at this point you'll want to sit in the listening position with your favorite beverage, your favorite bass-heavy content and bask in the glow of the awesomeness.

In the interest of public safety and at the risk of offending anyone here, should we add to disconnect the speaker that is farthest away from the sub at the back of the receiver or amplifier?

Disconnecting the speaker wire from the speaker, for most, will be much easier and possibly the route chosen for convenience sake only. However, as we know if those two speakers wires would happen to touch while the receiver/ amplifier is powered up and we are conducting the test, it could prove harmful or even disastrous for our receiver or amp.

 

[bmwuk]

If your speakers are set to "Small" in your bass management, you were likely given the option to select a frequency at which your main speakers transition to your subwoofer. Perhaps 80Hz? This is your crossover (XO) point.

Within the arrangement of your speakers, one of your main speakers is physically closer to your subwoofer than the other main speaker is. For this procedure, you're going to want to generate an 80Hz test tone through your subwoofer AND the main speaker that's closest to the sub. If you need to, disconnect the other speaker.

With an SPL meter in the listening position, generate that 80Hz tone (the internal tones of your pre/pro that you used to set your sub level will work but a test disc would be ideal). While that tone is playing, slowly adjust the phase knob on your sub. Note the readings on the SPL meter. As you *slowly* adjust the knob from one end of its range to the other, you'll notice the SPL goes up and down. Wherever the knob is that generates the highest SPL, leave it there.

It's at this point you'll want to sit in the listening position with your favorite beverage, your favorite bass-heavy content and bask in the glow of the awesomeness.

Okay am I missing the PSA dial for phase? I have room size, delay, crossover and gain

 

[Zing]

Okay am I missing the PSA dial for phase? I have room size, delay, crossover and gain

The delay is what you want to adjust.

 

[bmwuk]

The delay is what you want to adjust.

Ok. Question though.i found the subwoofer calibration via SPL meter on Disney Wow. Was I to send lfe to both nearest speaker and sub? Or just the sub. Wondering where that setting is. Sorry for the confusion

 

[Zing]

Ok. Question though.i found the subwoofer calibration via SPL meter on Disney Wow. Was I to send lfe to both nearest speaker and sub? Or just the sub. Wondering where that setting is. Sorry for the confusion

I'm not 100% certain of the contents of the Disney WOW disc. I'd be afraid that something called "Subwoofer Calibration" will only send the signal to the sub. What you want to do is have a source play an 80Hz sine wave. Your pre/pro will send it to the mains and the sub. The crossover will distribute it accordingly. Then all you need to do is adjust the knob until the listening position's SPL is at its highest.

If the Disney disc won't allow you to play a specific frequency, you can always download an 80Hz test signal, burn it to a CD and use that.

 

[Flint]

If the Disney disc won't allow you to play a specific frequency, you can always download an 80Hz test signal, burn it to a CD and use that.

Or use any of the millions of sine wave generators for smart phones.

 

[bmwuk]

Ok. Follow up. I finally got a chance last night to mess with the sub again. I downloaded a sine wave app that generated various frequencies so I used 80hz. I adjusted the delay knob only running the left front speaker and the subwoofer. A side note, it is really weird right after doing that and going to silence.

Anyway, the knob at the 12 o'clock position generated about 3db more than the original position.

I realize it's all relative on volume but is 69 db for that kind of low. I have my receiver at the -35.0db level and that is quite sufficient to my listening pleasure. I believe when I run the YPAO mic calibration it sets it to there as well. I can't imagine going higher than that and enjoying it

 

[Zing]

I realize it's all relative on volume but is 69 db for that kind of low. I have my receiver at the -35.0db level and that is quite sufficient to my listening pleasure. I believe when I run the YPAO mic calibration it sets it to there as well. I can't imagine going higher than that and enjoying it

This procedure isn't about the short term enjoyment. It's about the long term enjoyment. Yes, it's highly annoying and irritating but oh so necessary.

And yes, 69dB is definitely on the low side. I think you should be upwards of 80dB. To be sure, I'd play a CD or Blu-ray at an often-to-maximum used level of volume. Whatever reading your SPL meter shows during that would be an ideal setting for general calibration and phase adjustments.

 

[Dentman]

I think I have an answer for you, perhaps three. I had the exact same problem your having when I hooked up my Yammie, same model as yours.

First off for some reason if you have your speakers set to large and sub on you'll get very little out of your sub. You will also get very little out of your sub if they are set to small and you choose anything less the 80hz. At 80hz it's not bad but at 90 and 100hz your sub will jump to life.

Also while in 2-ch mode check the music button. For some reason I keep finding it being set in some goofy mode which makes everything either sound strange or will greatly reduce the overall volume of everything. Make sure it's in plain 2-ch.

I was baffled like you when I first set it up by the lack of any real bass. I had the levels doubled but got half the bass response I was getting from my Parasound. I'm now very happy but I do feel this Yammie isn't doing something right and needs to be tweaked to make it right.

PS. I have my sub level cranked to 6 and now just adjust on the fly right at the sub from my preferred 3db hot position. This is easy for me though since I have a remotely positioned sub amp.

 

[bmwuk]

I think I have an answer for you, perhaps three. I had the exact same problem your having when I hooked up my Yammie, same model as yours.

First off for some reason if you have your speakers set to large and sub on you'll get very little out of your sub. You will also get very little out of your sub if they are set to small and you choose anything less the 80hz. At 80hz it's not bad but at 90 and 100hz your sub will jump to life.

Also while in 2-ch mode check the music button. For some reason I keep finding it being set in some goofy mode which makes everything either sound strange or will greatly reduce the overall volume of everything. Make sure it's in plain 2-ch.

I was baffled like you when I first set it up by the lack of any real bass. I had the levels doubled but got half the bass response I was getting from my Parasound. I'm now very happy but I do feel this Yammie isn't doing something right and needs to be tweaked to make it right.

PS. I have my sub level cranked to 6 and now just adjust on the fly right at the sub from my preferred 3db hot position. This is easy for me though since I have a remotely positioned sub amp.

I will double check this on the stereo mode. I'm pretty sure I was in 2 channel since I had that setting last when playing music via bluetooth. I think I would've heard my surrounds playing but I'm 90%i didn't. I know when you do the calibration it always defaults to large speakers so I go back to adjust. I have the sub at 80hz so I'll tinker with 90 to see if anything changes.

I took the calibration on the sub up 3db via the receiver. If I read right, you go up 6db from calibrated level. Overall I like the Yamaha but as you've noted a little tweaking

 

[Dentman]

I will double check this on the stereo mode. I'm pretty sure I was in 2 channel since I had that setting last when playing music via bluetooth. I think I would've heard my surrounds playing but I'm 90%i didn't. I know when you do the calibration it always defaults to large speakers so I go back to adjust. I have the sub at 80hz so I'll tinker with 90 to see if anything changes.

I took the calibration on the sub up 3db via the receiver. If I read right, you go up 6db from calibrated level. Overall I like the Yamaha but as you've noted a little tweaking

It's not that it's not in 2-ch, it's that the button called "music" on the lower 3rd of the remote adds diffrent effects, like hall, echo....and so on. For me it defaulted to one of those modes twice on its own.

Over the choice in speaker size and x-overs point made a massive difference in bass. Still playing with it but I know this is most likely where your going to find any issue you might have. My towers with 3 - 7" driver's sound best set to small and x-over at 90. I havnt yet tried it with no sub selected and set to large. I need to do this since my speakers are new and I'm not familiar with them.

 

[bmwuk]

It's not that it's not in 2-ch, it's that the button called "music" on the lower 3rd of the remote adds diffrent effects, like hall, echo....and so on. For me it defaulted to one of those modes twice on its own.

Over the choice in speaker size and x-overs point made a massive difference in bass. Still playing with it but I know this is most likely where your going to find any issue you might have. My towers with 3 - 7" driver's sound best set to small and x-over at 90. I havnt yet tried it with no sub selected and set to large. I need to do this since my speakers are new and I'm not familiar with them.

I bumped up the subwoofer xover to 90 hz and I did note some difference but I think I'm happy on 80hz. Also, I cranked up the receiver to -29.0 on the dial where the sub hit 80 db on the SPL meter. That said it plays way too loud with my kids and wife asleep. It didn't make my ears bleed but the -35.0 on the dial is very coherent and sounds very good. I imagine with added acoustic panels in my room as I've done in the past, I've noted even lower necessary volumes to hear the details. Doing it slowly but surely but excited about the overall results

 

[Dentman]

I bumped up the subwoofer xover to 90 hz and I did note some difference but I think I'm happy on 80hz. Also, I cranked up the receiver to -29.0 on the dial where the sub hit 80 db on the SPL meter. That said it plays way too loud with my kids and wife asleep. It didn't make my ears bleed but the -35.0 on the dial is very coherent and sounds very good. I imagine with added acoustic panels in my room as I've done in the past, I've noted even lower necessary volumes to hear the details. Doing it slowly but surely but excited about the overall results

No wonder my neighbors won't talk to me. Jammed Hells Bells at -5 last night.

 

[Huey]

No wonder my neighbors won't talk to me. Jammed Hells Bells at -5 last night.

Sure, that's why they don't like you.

 

[Dentman]

Hey wait a minute!