Next upgrade?

[bmwuk]

I have been planning this year to get maybe one or two upgrades in but was wondering the opinion of which to do first.

As many of you know, I have the following:

Revel performa3 f206 mains
Revel performa3 c208 center
Paradigm mini monitors v2 side surround
Paradigm atoms v2 rear surrounds
Yamaha 7790 avr
ATI 1502 amp for mains
PSA 15v subwoofer

That said I want to do the following upgrades (no order)
Replace surrounds with Revel Concerta2 m16s (probably a pair at a time) or swap with Performa3 M105s
Add another subwooofer (new 15" vented from PSA)
Add a seven channel amp (monolith most likely)

I am leaning surrounds to swap. Any thoughts on what you would do. Down the road I want to get a nicer pre/pro but the amp has to come first

 

[Huey]

Don't have anything to add, but good luck in the upgrades.

 

[Akula]

Yeah, I'm with you on the swapping out of the surrounds- that's where I'd probably be looking for the next move.

 

[jamhead]

How's the room? How's the video portion?

 

[bmwuk]

How's the room? How's the video portion?

I have a 75" 4k Sony with a Sony 1000ES 4k player. I'm good on that end. I have acoustic panels on the wall for first order reflections and on front wall as well.

 

[heeman]

What PSA Sub do you currently have??

Adding the additional sub will make a huge difference if you have the ability to place them properly.

 

[bmwuk]

What PSA Sub do you currently have??

Adding the additional sub will make a huge difference if you have the ability to place them properly.

15V . Been replaced recently by newer model but basically the same performance

 

[Flint]

I think you have a great system. I don't see much real value in the upgrades you are recommending, though if you must spend money getting matching surrounds would provide the most impact on the overall experience.

Personally, I would look into spending similar funds on proper and attractive room acoustics, maybe even seating. Things like swapping a seat or sofa with a low back model (so there is no reflection from the seating directly against your head) would make a HUGE difference in the sound. That assumes your current seat has a high back and thus the issue of that awful proximity reflection/presence.

The big multichannel amp might make a moderate difference at very high listening levels, but you've mentioned that you don't get to enjoy high listening levels with young children in the house. I'd wait until you can actually utilize the power before buying an amp as they will only get better and cheaper by then.

A second identical subwoofer could offer a few benefits if you need them. It will increase your peak SPL in the sub-bass range by a maximum of 6dB. It could help reduce the significance nulls and modes on the perceived sub-bass frequency response if you are able to place the two subs in the most ideal locations to help reduce the room resonances. It can also extend your deep super-sub-sonic audibility with lower distortion by lightening the load on the single sub. Those are all good things, but unless you are listening at levels where the bass below 30Hz is regularly louder than 70dB SPL, you won't really notice them.

Ultimately, you have a very sweet system which I believe you cannot fully enjoy as of yet. It should sound almost as good as you can get (assuming the sound of the speakers is to your tastes) for how you are using it. Acoustics will simply make what you've got sound better. Currently you are getting a hindered sound where what the speakers are presenting are put through the filter of your room. Things like attractive diffusors on your ceiling, attractive diffusors on the walls directly to the side of the listener, effective bass traps, and so on, would truly improve what you are hearing.

 

[bmwuk]

I think you have a great system. I don't see much real value in the upgrades you are recommending, though if you must spend money getting matching surrounds would provide the most impact on the overall experience.

Personally, I would look into spending similar funds on proper and attractive room acoustics, maybe even seating. Things like swapping a seat or sofa with a low back model (so there is no reflection from the seating directly against your head) would make a HUGE difference in the sound. That assumes your current seat has a high back and thus the issue of that awful proximity reflection/presence.

The big multichannel amp might make a moderate difference at very high listening levels, but you've mentioned that you don't get to enjoy high listening levels with young children in the house. I'd wait until you can actually utilize the power before buying an amp as they will only get better and cheaper by then.

A second identical subwoofer could offer a few benefits if you need them. It will increase your peak SPL in the sub-bass range by a maximum of 6dB. It could help reduce the significance nulls and modes on the perceived sub-bass frequency response if you are able to place the two subs in the most ideal locations to help reduce the room resonances. It can also extend your deep super-sub-sonic audibility with lower distortion by lightening the load on the single sub. Those are all good things, but unless you are listening at levels where the bass below 30Hz is regularly louder than 70dB SPL, you won't really notice them.

Ultimately, you have a very sweet system which I believe you cannot fully enjoy as of yet. It should sound almost as good as you can get (assuming the sound of the speakers is to your tastes) for how you are using it. Acoustics will simply make what you've got sound better. Currently you are getting a hindered sound where what the speakers are presenting are put through the filter of your room. Things like attractive diffusors on your ceiling, attractive diffusors on the walls directly to the side of the listener, effective bass traps, and so on, would truly improve what you are hearing.

I was leaning towards the matching surrounds. The issue is the M106 and M105 bookshelf speakers are $2K and $1.5K respectively. The M16 from their Concerta2 line is $900 MSRP and based on discussions with my dealer, he indicated that for surround impact, the M16s would work very well. He encouraged the front soundstage with the C208 then take a step down for surrounds with the Concerta2 line. I don't know if that sounds right. I have read the different lines have similarities.

 

[Flint]

In general, brands like Revel, which is owned by the huge audio conglomerate Harman, which is owned by Samsung, makes an effort to differentiate their speaker brands by ensuring each brand has similar sound qualities and aesthetics. As such, if you cannot perfectly match the surrounds, sticking to the same brand should get better results than going with a different brand.

With smaller companies you may get more variety in sound style between model lines. But with the big multinational conglomerates that is less common.

 

[Dentman]

By a very wide margin acoustic treatments will give you the best gains. Another thought might be a pre amp. The output voltage on these Yamaha receivers is fairly low which could/will cause your external amp to clip or start to sound harsh at higher volumes. If your mostly a movie guy this is less of an issue.

 

[bmwuk]

By a very wide margin acoustic treatments will give you the best gains. Another thought might be a pre amp. The output voltage on these Yamaha receivers is fairly low which could/will cause your external amp to clip or start to sound harsh at higher volumes. If your mostly a movie guy this is less of an issue.

I want to do a preamp pro down the line but currently I only have a 2 channel amp. I am looking at the monolith 7 channel amp. I also am intrigued by the ATI 1807 model but it's almost twice the price. Not sure on the benefit of One versus the other
For the surround speakers I guess I'll just have to figure out my budget this year and go based on that. I think the surrounds are probably going to be my next step. I have several acoustic treatments already

 

[Akula]

In general, brands like Revel, which is owned by the huge audio conglomerate Harman, which is owned by Samsung, makes an effort to differentiate their speaker brands by ensuring each brand has similar sound qualities and aesthetics. As such, if you cannot perfectly match the surrounds, sticking to the same brand should get better results than going with a different brand.

With smaller companies you may get more variety in sound style between model lines. But with the big multinational conglomerates that is less common.

In the past, Paradigm made a big deal about pretty much their entire product line being timbre-matched to each other. Now, I'm not sure how that would have worked had one taken their cheapest bookshelf and set it alongside one of their Reference Studio units, but I know my (recently replaced) Mini Monitors (Monitor Line) mated pretty well to the Titans (Performance line, one step down) I used for surround.

 

[bmwuk]

In the past, Paradigm made a big deal about pretty much their entire product line being timbre-matched to each other. Now, I'm not sure how that would have worked had one taken their cheapest bookshelf and set it alongside one of their Reference Studio units, but I know my (recently replaced) Mini Monitors (Monitor Line) mated pretty well to the Titans (Performance line, one step down) I used for surround.

At a minimum I would be replacing the paradigms with the revel speakers to match and again based on feedback it sounds like the concerta2 line for surround use would be very sufficient. My plan in all actuality is potentially replacing the four rear surrounds with the M16 speakers and then eventually migrate them 2 height speakers and replace them with the performa 3 speakers for surround use in about a year or so. This would coincide with my replacement of my current receiver with a 9.2 or 11.2 preamp powered bye ATI or monolith or otherwise amps. I think in the given year I could convince the wife to spend on the M16 speakers along with another subwoofer and get great enjoyment from it and then eventually add additional speakers to the setup. So long story short I'm thinking Flint maybe right on focusing on the surround first and then going from there. In reality this is probably a two to three year upgrade bit by bit

 

[bmwuk]

Just filed the taxes and without getting into details, have some money coming back which the wife is allowing me to purchase some upgrades in my system. So here are the scenarios I'm debating for my upgrades which focuses on surrounds first

1. Buy Revel Performa3 M106s (2 pairs). Wife would potentially buy another sub for me around Father's Day
2. Buy Revel Performa3 M105s (2 Pairs). Would leave some wiggle room for a sub if I spent some money out-of-pocket on top
3. Buy Revel Concerta2 M16 (2 Pairs). Would then be able to buy the sub on top with extra room of money but not enough to do any other upgrades.

The following after these upgrades would be an amp. That said, should I set my sights high for something like an ATI 1807 or similar ($3K) which would take some time to purchase or go with the Monolith 7 channel at $1.6K which could probably be done maybe this time next year?

 

[Flint]

Just filed the taxes and without getting into details, have some money coming back which the wife is allowing me to purchase some upgrades in my system. So here are the scenarios I'm debating for my upgrades which focuses on surrounds first

1. Buy Revel Performa3 M106s (2 pairs). Wife would potentially buy another sub for me around Father's Day
2. Buy Revel Performa3 M105s (2 Pairs). Would leave some wiggle room for a sub if I spent some money out-of-pocket on top
3. Buy Revel Concerta2 M16 (2 Pairs). Would then be able to buy the sub on top with extra room of money but not enough to do any other upgrades.

The following after these upgrades would be an amp. That said, should I set my sights high for something like an ATI 1807 or similar ($3K) which would take some time to purchase or go with the Monolith 7 channel at $1.6K which could probably be done maybe this time next year?

I cannot help on the speaker decision.

If you go with the Monolith Amp, which is an amazing amp, you could get a proper pre/pro sooner, which I would recommend you consider sooner rather than later. I have never heard any receiver used as a preamp sound as good as proper stand alone pre/pro. Lower noise, silent operation, greater flexibility, and this really strange sense of invisibility I've never experienced with any AV receiver in my time.

 

[bmwuk]

I cannot help on the speaker decision.

If you go with the Monolith Amp, which is an amazing amp, you could get a proper pre/pro sooner, which I would recommend you consider sooner rather than later. I have never heard any receiver used as a preamp sound as good as proper stand alone pre/pro. Lower noise, silent operation, greater flexibility, and this really strange sense of invisibility I've never experienced with any AV receiver in my time.

Thanks. Yes, the pre/pro is on the list but obviously after a proper amp is purchased.

 

[bmwuk]

I cannot help on the speaker decision.

If you go with the Monolith Amp, which is an amazing amp, you could get a proper pre/pro sooner, which I would recommend you consider sooner rather than later. I have never heard any receiver used as a preamp sound as good as proper stand alone pre/pro. Lower noise, silent operation, greater flexibility, and this really strange sense of invisibility I've never experienced with any AV receiver in my time.

Btw, what pre/pros are recommended? I see Marantz but I've heard longevity issues. Anthem? Other?

 

[bmwuk]

Well. A pair of speakers should be be ordered today. And then I'll order the others soon after

 

[Razz]

That ATI 1807 is a MONSTER!