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Opinion wanted on an old debate topic

AndySTL

Well-Known Member
Just about as long as I began reading the old forum, I've jumped on the bandwagon of feeling that bookshelf speakers were just as effective as floorstanders. I have 3 Studio 20s for LRC and have had them for about 5 years and have really enjoyed them. In the last 3 years audio and HT has taken a back seat to other parts of life (i.e. marriage, kids, more intense career path) and I really haven't utilized my system as much. I got a bit of a kickstart at the end of last year when my receiver died and I got the go-ahead to replace it. Ever since then I've felt that my sound is a bit thin. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it seems to lack punch, full sound, rich tone. I'm certain my room is part of the problem, but I'm trying to figure out if it's my only problem. The room is somewhat large, about 400 sq. ft and I began to wonder if it's possible that floorstanding speakers would sound better in a room this size and provide a larger sense of scale (I think we discussed the scale topic about 6 months ago). So I think it could be related to any combination of the below factors. Do you think it's most likely #1 only or a combination?

1. Room acoustics (obviously a factor)
2. Speaker placement
3. Speaker cabinet/driver size (is this crazy?)
4. Crappy receiver amplifier section (is this crazy?)
5. All of the above
 

Botch

I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S!
Superstar
It sounded good until your receiver died, and it doesn't sound good now with the new receiver? You did say there was a three-year period of little use. Could you clarify?
 

AndySTL

Well-Known Member
Before the receiver died I and during the time we were already in this house (i,e, in my larger room) I wasn't using the system much at all. I can't recall how it sounded.
 

Rope

Well-Known Member
Famous
AndySTL said:
Just about as long as I began reading the old forum, I've jumped on the bandwagon of feeling that bookshelf speakers were just as effective as floorstanders. I have 3 Studio 20s for LRC and have had them for about 5 years and have really enjoyed them. In the last 3 years audio and HT has taken a back seat to other parts of life (i.e. marriage, kids, more intense career path) and I really haven't utilized my system as much. I got a bit of a kickstart at the end of last year when my receiver died and I got the go-ahead to replace it. Ever since then I've felt that my sound is a bit thin. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it seems to lack punch, full sound, rich tone. I'm certain my room is part of the problem, but I'm trying to figure out if it's my only problem. The room is somewhat large, about 400 sq. ft and I began to wonder if it's possible that floorstanding speakers would sound better in a room this size and provide a larger sense of scale (I think we discussed the scale topic about 6 months ago). So I think it could be related to any combination of the below factors. Do you think it's most likely #1 only or a combination?

1. Room acoustics (obviously a factor)
2. Speaker placement
3. Speaker cabinet/driver size (is this crazy?)
4. Crappy receiver amplifier section (is this crazy?)
5. All of the above

1. Big factor.
2. Also a considerable factor.
3. Could be a factor if you're not happy with the decibel level.
4. Not a factor, unless the receiver is under powered. (doubtful)
5. Subwoofer?

Rope
 

AndySTL

Well-Known Member
Decibels are not an issue. I am using a sub, it's an SVS PC 20-39. The receiver is a Denon 4310.

It's probably just the room, just curious on others' experiences.
 

Orbison

Well-Known Member
The obvious questions for starters: Did you check speaker setup - EQ/Bass/Treble settings on the new receiver? Does the new Receiver (Brand/Model?) have as much power as the old one? Check the speaker connections for correct phase, i.e. positive & negative possibly reversed on one or more speakers. Changes to the furniture, speakers, or listening position locations?

Finally, maybe your preference in the way you want your system to sound has changed. Or maybe you just have a case of upgrade-itis.
 

AndySTL

Well-Known Member
Orbison said:
The obvious questions for starters: Did you check speaker setup - EQ/Bass/Treble settings on the new receiver? Does the new Receiver (Brand/Model?) have as much power as the old one? Check the speaker connections for correct phase, i.e. positive & negative possibly reversed on one or more speakers. Changes to the furniture, speakers, or listening position locations?

Finally, maybe your preference in the way you want your system to sound has changed. Or maybe you just have a case of upgrade-itis.

Yep, setup is fine. And I should clarify that it doesn't sound terrible, it just doesn't impress me as much as it used to.

It could very well indeed be the upgraditis kicking in.
 

Rope

Well-Known Member
Famous
Orbison said:
The obvious questions for starters: Did you check speaker setup - EQ/Bass/Treble settings on the new receiver? Does the new Receiver (Brand/Model?) have as much power as the old one? Check the speaker connections for correct phase, i.e. positive & negative possibly reversed on one or more speakers. Changes to the furniture, speakers, or listening position locations?

Finally, maybe your preference in the way you want your system to sound has changed. Or maybe you just have a case of upgrade-itis.

All good suggestions, especially the speaker phase (correct polarity). If you've recently reinstalled, moved things around, then reconnected. My money's on polarity. When I first installed the ATI amp, I had the speaker connection bassackwards. Came close to reinstalling the Bryston, but pulled head out of ass.

The 4310 should have no issue driving an 8-Ohm speaker.

Rope
 

Rope

Well-Known Member
Famous
If you have the AVIA disc, go to the subwoofer setup and make certain you have the subwoofer phase knob set correctly.

Rope
 

AndySTL

Well-Known Member
Rope said:
If you have the AVIA disc, go to the subwoofer setup and make certain you have the subwoofer phase knob set correctly.

Rope

That's a good suggestion! I'll check that tomorrow.
 

PaulyT

Behind the Curtain
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Superstar
Try moving the speakers around in the room, change listening distance, etc. Maybe there's something non-ideal about how they're placed?
 

malsackj

Well-Known Member
I agree with the setup and test on the crossover from sub to mains. Room did not change and placement should not be a factor unless room was changed. What changed is the receiver and the setup and crossover. If you cant find test tones on a CD there are some at M-audio.
 

Barney

Longhorns, Cowboys, Spurs, & Rangers...love Texas
Andy, not to scare you.....but your hearing changes with age. I tend to go with the side of something besides the 20's.
When you are tired of 'em..........add me to the list of folks that would love to have 'em (I've got 2 20v2's)......would love more.
 

Yesfan70

I'm famous now bitches! vvvvv
Famous
malsackj said:
I agree with the setup and test on the crossover from sub to mains. Room did not change and placement should not be a factor unless room was changed. What changed is the receiver and the setup and crossover. If you cant find test tones on a CD there are some at M-audio.


I have to agree. I would say double check your connections and settings just to be sure.
 

AndySTL

Well-Known Member
Just a quick update on this. I played around with placement of my speakers. I found that they sound dramatically better when I pulled them forward an additional ~3 feet. I also moved them closer together. And if I moved my listening position forward about 3 feet, my subwoofer performance seemed MUCH better. I guess I have a standing wave around my main listening position. I'm happy that the issue is room acoustics related, but as a practical matter I can't move the speakers too far from their regular position.
 

Barney

Longhorns, Cowboys, Spurs, & Rangers...love Texas
Andy, if you do want to listen to some speakers...please try speakers (stand or towers) that have the tweeter (or horn) between two mids. I can't remember this design "name"...I still love my NHT towers more than my paradigm 20's. They can fill my whole family room/kitchen area. I've listened to other speaker manufactures & I still tend to enjoy the speakers that have the tweeter in the middle of two mids......just my $0.02
 

FredtheFilmFan

Active Member
D'Appolito Array. I'm going to guess it has to do with lobbing issues, but if you aren't sitting at the same height as the speakers, the sound is different. I have some Mission 773e's and the sound good (lack of low end-5 1/4in drivers) but you have to be sitting at the right height.
 
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