Speaker Placement Question

[Haywood]

My system is current 5.1 channels with my couch against the back wall of the room and a dipole on either side of it. I would like to go to 7.1 and have been trying to figure out the best approach. I am thinking about hanging my ADP-370 v.2 dipoles on the back wall above the couch (near the ceiling) and putting a pair of Mini Monitors where the dipoles are now, facing the couch. Is this the best approach? Does anyone have a better idea. I can score a used set of Mini Monitor v.2 bookshelf speakers for $175 shipped. The only real downside is that I will have to plug the ports and put the speakers flat up against the wall. Is this a bad idea overall, or a cheap upgrade? The Mini Monitors have the same drivers as my dipoles, so they should timber match what I have in the back now.

 

[CMonster]

With your couch against the back wall, I don't see the point in adding rear speakers. However, I would get the Mini Monitors and use those as surrounds instead of dipoles though I'm not sure how plugging the ports will affect them.

 

[Haywood]

I'm trying to get a fuller rear sound stage. The rationale for putting the dipoles on the back is that they are designed for on-wall placement and fire to the sides, which means the drivers would be to the rear of the listener (if not by much). Dipoles provide a more diffused sound field and the speakers would be mounted high on the wall. The direct radiators would be closer to ear level on the sides, a good four feet from either end of the couch. The room is about 13x17 with the couch located on the long wall. It has to be oriented that way, because there is a wide doorway on one end and three large windows on the other. The seating area is fairly wide, so creating a highly focused sweet spot is counter-productive in terms of how the room is used. I should probably take some pictures. It is somewhat less than idea for a home theater, but it is what I have to work with for the next several years until I buy something better.

 

[Flint]

I'm trying to get a fuller rear sound stage.

Move your couch away from the wall.
:violence-torch:

 

[Haywood]

I'm trying to get a fuller rear sound stage.

Move your couch away from the wall.
:violence-torch:

I cannot do that. The room is too narrow and the couch (which has a chaise on each end) is too deep. The wall opposite the couch has two book cases on either side of my TV stand and my Studio/40 mains on stands a good foot out from the glass doors on the front of the book cases.

 

[Towen7]

I think you're stuck

 

[Haywood]

I might be able to pull it out 8 to 12 inches and put a narrow sofa table behind the couch. It is the only way I could do it without dropping lots of stuff back there or having it look bad. I cannot pull it out any farther than that though. I'll try to post some pictures later.

I assume you guys think the rear dipoles are a bad idea?

 

[Towen7]

I've had a setup like yours with a sofa against a wall. I tried several options to get rear surround and nothing worked well. Speakers overhead sound like they are overhead, not behind. Speakers behind the sofa will work but them being that close won't sound "right". Of the options you listed that's the way I'd go.

 

[yromj]

...I assume you guys think the rear dipoles are a bad idea?

Yep. I'm not a fan of "sprayers". I had them for a while in my old living room setup and was surprised at how much I didn't like the way they handled side/rear effects. They just made things seem like noises from somewhere back that way. Monopoles can deliver very realistic atmospheric effects, such as wind, rain, etc. and still place things, such as a bird chirping, in a correct location. The best effect though is when that bird flies away and flies through the middle of the room. Multi-poles cannot give that effect correctly.

I would cheat the sofa up as much as I could and put the mini monitors on mounts in the corners facing towards the opposite corner of the room. That would put the surrounds at about a 37 degree angle from the back wall. Remember we're talking about surrounds here so any influence of the two walls should be minimal. Also, the fact that the speaker is out from the corner means their rear-facing port won't be affected nearly as much.

If the couch is not as long as the 17' wall, I would cheat the surrounds out of the corners along the long wall a little bit and then angle them towards the center of the back of the couch.

John

 

[Flint]

Acoustic are a factor you can't just dismiss. Having a couch against a wall inherently causes many problems not limited to surround effects. It hinders stereo imaging, bass performance, and fine.detail in absolutely everything.

It is a shame if you cannot move the sofa to where your head, when listening, isn't at least two feet from any wall, but if you was a little better rear depth (and not much else), I recommend you move the couch away from the wall just enough to fit a single dipole directly behind the listening head. That will work, but do NOT put two speakers back there. It is also absolutely crucial you set the levels perfectly.

 

[Haywood]

My couch is 117" wide. I found a sofa table solution acceptable to my wife that is 15.75 inches wide. Add half an inch for the baseboard. The back of the couch is 6" thick, plus the cushions. That puts the listener about 24" off the back wall if I add the table.

I've been using dipole surrounds on the sides with no rear surrounds for 14 years. I'm trying to get the maximum improvement in sound for as little money as possible. I could buy two pairs of monopoles, but I'd rather not spend that much. One reason I was going to move the dipoles to the rear instead of leaving them on the sides is that they are honestly too close to the back wall and the room layout would make it difficult to fix that. I was also thinking that dipoles might help with the couch being so close to the back wall. The only places I can put the surrounds would be directly on top of the new sofa table or up near the ceiling. The sofa table is closer to the same height as the side speakers, but that would put the surrounds immediately behind the listener's heads. My thought was that dipoles high on the wall might work, since the sound field is more diffused and it would put more distance between the speakers and the listener.

 

[Haywood]

Here is the room, which I did not bother straightening up and looks a bit untidy.

 

[Haywood]

On a better day...

 

[Botch]

I've got a similar setup as you Scott, and I just stay satisfied with 5.1, dipoles on the sides. If the speakers you mentioned are only available now, might pick them up and save them for when you upgrade your receiver to Atmos, and use them for that.
Don't even know that there's much 7.1 material out there.

 

[Deerhunter]

I ended up using speaker stands that were above my head by a few inches then point the speakers almost at each other. It works, but still not ideal, I also have the mini monitors for the rear, along with my monitor 11's and center. Hopefully once I get a house I can do it differently.

I also set my mic on my camera tripod in the center of the couch with the mic at ear level, then allowed my Denon to work with me out of the room. It did not sound too bad, I was able to scare my wife the first time she watched Beauty and the Beast for the first time on a surround set up. It was the moment when Beast walks into the room with Bella in it. :angelic-green:

 

[Haywood]

I am toying with putting the ADP-370 dipoles in storage and buying two pairs of used Atom v.2 bookshelf speakers. The Atoms are a little smaller than the Mini Monitors and would work better for wall mounting. I could buy articulating wall mounts and mount all four of them high on the wall, angled downward toward the listening position. With the sofa table, the listener's head would be almost 2 feet off the rear wall. The total cost for this would be somewhere around $400 including shipping, mounts and speaker wire.

I'm trying to stay with Monitor v.2 because I know that they provide a very close timber match to my Studio v.2 front speakers. Studio 20s are just too big for my placement and are honestly more than I want to spend. I expect to be in this house another 3 to 5 years while I save a down payment big enough for the New England housing market. Once I buy something, I can start building my dedicated room and this entire system will get relegated to a secondary space.

 

[Haywood]

No thoughts on the four wall-mounted Atoms idea?

 

[Flint]

Don't bother.

In terms of a "rear" sound field, put a single dipole directly behind the listener's head. It will only benefit one listener, but it will work.

 

[Haywood]

That would be pretty pointless, as my family tends to sprawl out across the length of that couch and we don't even always sit in the same place. My wife and I normally snuggle up on one end with my oldest daughter at the other end and my youngest somewhere in between. How far off the back wall do I need to get in order to make wall-mounted direct radiators work? I was thinking about mounting them about 4-5 feet above ear level, but angled down toward the listener. I was planning to put all four speakers at the same height.

I could skip all that and put a pair of Mini Monitors where the ADP-370s are now and just drop a 370 in the middle of the sofa table up against the wall, but it is unlikely that anyone would be sitting in front of it. Why only one? Why not one behind each of the two main seating positions at either end to the couch?

Another option would be to simply replace the 370s with Mini Monitors in their current locations and forget 7.1 entirely.

 

[Flint]

Just one because you are too close to them if they are sitting right behind you. It would be impossible to get the balance right to have two separate channels of sound which sounds at all balanced. The goal of 7.1 is that all four surround channels are about the same level and identical tonal qualities. If you are three times as close to one speaker as the next, then it is completely impossible to get a balanced sound (unless you tune it for one listening position, but even then the tonality will not match at all).

Since you just told me you cannot tune for a single listening position, then this exercise gets more and more pointless by the minute.

The only other solution I can think of is to do what the big movie theaters do and put many, many speakers across the back so each listener will inherently get a smoother blend of distributed sound. Do you want to go down that route? About 8 speakers lined along the ceiling aimed back and down would get the job done.