The Last Jedi - SPOILER Thread
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Thanks Bats! So, what did everybody think of the movie? Very disappointed in what they did with Snoke, not so much for killing him, but they told nothing of his back story. Also not sure if I believe the story about Rey's parents, she's just too gifted to come from a bunch of drunks. Overall, I really liked the movie, but driving home, some disappointment started to set in. I think people expected some kind of big twist that there never was. I generally like the guy that played General Hux, but something about the way he talks in this sounds a little too much over the top. I also felt that them traveling to that Vegas style city was too much of a distraction in the movie. Maybe I'll feel different after seeing more of the deleted scenes on the bluray, but I'm hoping the next movie is better.
No death star or planet, but they do have a pretty big ship with some pretty big guns.
So...during the movie, I enjoyed it.
Driving home I felt a bit of disappointment...as a Star Wars fan-boi-ish type of person.
But...as I watched some breakdowns of the movie...I'm starting to like it even more.
The whole part at the Space Vegas populated by war profiteers was almost completely useless...except to introduce the future heroes of Star Wars movies.
One of the main things that the reviewers I watched talked about was the true death of "The Jedi Order" and the Sith.
Ben Solo is the supreme commander and he was awesome in his part. I really had no idea what he was going to do with his conflict until
the lightsaber started to turn (I knew what I wanted him to do...) but then I also really liked they did not just sew it up with a "happy ending"
with him and Rey right after the battle. That would have been too...simple.
The part where the ship piloted by Laura Dern light-sped right through Snoke's ship was FUCKING AWESOME!
And Rey being nobody...It is important in the "new" Star Wars universe to have it that way.
Anyone can be a Jedi, anyone can be a hero. Otherwise we'd be stuck with the Skywalkers and Solo's for all subsequent movies,
and have a much smaller sand box to play it. Now...they can introduce so many possible characters and heroes and Jedi.
I mean...there used to be so many other Jedi before Anakin killed them all...there will be more again!
Though...they do need to figure out Finn and give him something to do besides comedic foil lucking his way into success.
And...Captain Phasma was such a waste. Wish they could have done more with her too.
Ever read any of the EU books? A significant chunk of them end up with Luke or Leia Jedi-ing their way to solve problems as a Deus ex machina. It's why the X-Wing books are beloved- they specifically toss that ability right out since they follow normal folks. They definitely needed to get away from "all Skywalkers, all the time."
I read a couple? maybe 3? of the Timothy Zahn books a long time ago, but that was about it...and the only thing I remember is Vice Admiral Thrawn and Dreadnoughts. And a crazy old Jedi Knight?
Meaning I guess...no, I haven't.
The more I think about this movie, the more I like it.
Think I'll go watch it in the theater again.
OK, now I'll go over that article posted in the other thread:
http://comicbookl.com/star-wars-the-last-jedis-biggest-disappointments/
My responses:
10 (Snoke's identity)- So? The emperor was never developed in the original trilogy (and with the EU now being non-canonical, there's no reason for the Empire's massive military buildup). Vader was never developed in the original movie. Nobody seems all butthurt that Blofeld's background is never explored. Nobody gives a rip if Hans Gruber was bullied as a child. A villain is a villain. Yes, I agree I'd like to know his back story, but that's not a deal breaker at all.
9 (Rey's parents are nobodies)- Again, not bothered. In fact, I LIKE it. When combined with the little boy Force-summoning his broom at the end, it indicates the Force is being more democratized. There's more Force users than Luke, Leia, their families, and other rogue Sith or whatever. While everyone was speculating about her being a long lost sibling to Ben Skywalker or the result of Kenobi's one night stand, turns out her parents had as much impact on the story as the parents in most Disney stories.
8 (Luke's lightsaber)- Yeah, it seemed a little out of character for a Star Wars movie for Luke to toss it away for a laugh (it WAS funny, though). This was his dad's lightsaber, it would have been an heirloom. But given his state of mind, it's still believable- he was trying to renounce everything Jedi. This was an attempt to draw him back in. I think complaining that we were all worked up for a couple years only to be repaid like this just smacks of entitlement.
7 (Knights of Ren)- OK, I think he has a point with this, but honestly, until I read the article I'd completely forgotten about them. A minor continuity issue, but not enough of one to toss the movie. Heck, the original trilogy had more and bigger ones.
6 (Heroes made it worse)- Yes, they did. Indiana Jones was much the same in Raiders of the Lost Ark and people didn't seem to care. They still like that movie. It was a subversion of the usual Star Wars trope of renegades going their own way and saving everything. But part of the message of the film was breaking with the past and relative nobodies rising up to do the job, and in order to do that the Resistance needed to lose its military.
5 (Leia's force use)- OK, yeah, didn't see that coming. But complaining that it wasn't what was expected? Is the author mad because he wasn't the one asked to make the movie and the director didn't get his personal permission for everything? Again, the Force is manifesting in more people.
4 (Jedi books)- If Luke didn't find them until he made it to the island, he had already sworn off being a Jedi. So no, he wouldn't have bothered reading them. As Yoda said, they were a hard go anyway. And they'd managed to train Jedi without them before, so they obviously aren't THAT critical. As Luke said, the Jedi order were arrogant and ultimately a failure. So losing the last vestiges of their training may not be that big a deal.
3 (Phasma)- There's a LOT of characters in Star Wars who never got their own stories outside of the EU. Lando would make for an interesting one. General Tarkin. Mon Mothma. Not Boba Fett, I'm sick of that guy. Jabba. Now, they did build her up as something special, so I agree that, like Snoke, there's definitely a feeling that there's a lot more there that went untold. But people gush over Game of Thrones (another media that Gwendoline Christie is in), and they kill seemingly significant characters as casually as they take a drunken whiz.
2 (Crait battle)- OK, the Crait world just didn't do it for me. The effect of the skimmers rooster tailing was cool, but it went nowhere. But then, see the end of #6- the Resistance needed to lose. Hard. And even if they had "won" by blowing that big gun, help wasn't coming. They will have to subvert it some other way.
1 (final scene)- Yeah, it was really easy to miss. It could have used a little more to grab our attention, but does anybody else feel like he threw this in just to round out the whole ten?
http://comicbookl.com/star-wars-the-last-jedis-biggest-disappointments/
My responses:
10 (Snoke's identity)- So? The emperor was never developed in the original trilogy (and with the EU now being non-canonical, there's no reason for the Empire's massive military buildup). Vader was never developed in the original movie. Nobody seems all butthurt that Blofeld's background is never explored. Nobody gives a rip if Hans Gruber was bullied as a child. A villain is a villain. Yes, I agree I'd like to know his back story, but that's not a deal breaker at all.
9 (Rey's parents are nobodies)- Again, not bothered. In fact, I LIKE it. When combined with the little boy Force-summoning his broom at the end, it indicates the Force is being more democratized. There's more Force users than Luke, Leia, their families, and other rogue Sith or whatever. While everyone was speculating about her being a long lost sibling to Ben Skywalker or the result of Kenobi's one night stand, turns out her parents had as much impact on the story as the parents in most Disney stories.
8 (Luke's lightsaber)- Yeah, it seemed a little out of character for a Star Wars movie for Luke to toss it away for a laugh (it WAS funny, though). This was his dad's lightsaber, it would have been an heirloom. But given his state of mind, it's still believable- he was trying to renounce everything Jedi. This was an attempt to draw him back in. I think complaining that we were all worked up for a couple years only to be repaid like this just smacks of entitlement.
7 (Knights of Ren)- OK, I think he has a point with this, but honestly, until I read the article I'd completely forgotten about them. A minor continuity issue, but not enough of one to toss the movie. Heck, the original trilogy had more and bigger ones.
6 (Heroes made it worse)- Yes, they did. Indiana Jones was much the same in Raiders of the Lost Ark and people didn't seem to care. They still like that movie. It was a subversion of the usual Star Wars trope of renegades going their own way and saving everything. But part of the message of the film was breaking with the past and relative nobodies rising up to do the job, and in order to do that the Resistance needed to lose its military.
5 (Leia's force use)- OK, yeah, didn't see that coming. But complaining that it wasn't what was expected? Is the author mad because he wasn't the one asked to make the movie and the director didn't get his personal permission for everything? Again, the Force is manifesting in more people.
4 (Jedi books)- If Luke didn't find them until he made it to the island, he had already sworn off being a Jedi. So no, he wouldn't have bothered reading them. As Yoda said, they were a hard go anyway. And they'd managed to train Jedi without them before, so they obviously aren't THAT critical. As Luke said, the Jedi order were arrogant and ultimately a failure. So losing the last vestiges of their training may not be that big a deal.
3 (Phasma)- There's a LOT of characters in Star Wars who never got their own stories outside of the EU. Lando would make for an interesting one. General Tarkin. Mon Mothma. Not Boba Fett, I'm sick of that guy. Jabba. Now, they did build her up as something special, so I agree that, like Snoke, there's definitely a feeling that there's a lot more there that went untold. But people gush over Game of Thrones (another media that Gwendoline Christie is in), and they kill seemingly significant characters as casually as they take a drunken whiz.
2 (Crait battle)- OK, the Crait world just didn't do it for me. The effect of the skimmers rooster tailing was cool, but it went nowhere. But then, see the end of #6- the Resistance needed to lose. Hard. And even if they had "won" by blowing that big gun, help wasn't coming. They will have to subvert it some other way.
1 (final scene)- Yeah, it was really easy to miss. It could have used a little more to grab our attention, but does anybody else feel like he threw this in just to round out the whole ten?
Those were the first EU books. They were OK... well written, but the story was just so-so. Zahn had some better ones in the EU (his book Allegiance was better). But the X-Wing series by Aaron Allston and Michael Stackpole were the real gems in the entire EU. They (generally) follow Wedge Antilles. If you're looking for some easy escapist fiction, I'd recommend them.
When Leia got blown out of the bridge, I thought for sure that would be the way they would have written in her death.But then they did the whole force thing, which I couldn't believe they did that. She added almost nothing to the rest of the movie, and I felt they kept her alive more in tribute to her than anything. Also, at one point it's assumed that Kylo thought she was dead. He saw the bridge blow, but we don't know if he could feel her life force or not. He didn't seem to when they were on the crystal planet. Also, looking back now that we know Luke was only a force projection, why have the conversation with Leia about how Ben couldn't be saved. Luke knew he wasn't there to defeat them, only to buy time for the others to escape.
BTW, I think it was a blink and you missed, but there's some speculation that the Jedi books somehow made it on to the Falcon. Also, a very minor point, but I wish they would have used CGI Yoda rather than the puppet Yoda in the force ghost scene.
If I seem over critical, I'm really not, but I guess I am some what disappointed in this movie. Anxiously awaiting the bluray release with all of the extra footage.
BTW, I think it was a blink and you missed, but there's some speculation that the Jedi books somehow made it on to the Falcon. Also, a very minor point, but I wish they would have used CGI Yoda rather than the puppet Yoda in the force ghost scene.
If I seem over critical, I'm really not, but I guess I am some what disappointed in this movie. Anxiously awaiting the bluray release with all of the extra footage.
In regards to Leia....I really disliked her Force flying in space, a lot. I’m not sure whether it’s that they did that at all or the way it was handled. It just felt off in some way. Not sure I’ll ever come around on that. I have a feeling Leia was meant to have a more prominent role and then get killed off in Ep9. Obviously, the timing of Carrie Fisher’s death put the director in a tough spot as there was just no right way to handle it and write in a proper death scene for Leia. Now Abrams is in an even tougher spot unless there’s some unused footage because I don’t know how you either a) CGI her death or b) simply not even address it??
I thought Mark Hamill’s performance was AMAZING. But I thought the portrayal was not in keeping with the character. I guess at the end, he came around to being the Luke we know, but in the form of a Force projection. While they showed the true power he’s achieved and it was cool, I would also have loved for him to wield a real lightsaber for one last time in battle. I’m sure we’ll see him in Ep9 at the very least as a Force ghost. I’m sad that he’s apparently gone, but I had no problem with how the moment was handled.
I thought Finn was set up really nicely as a supporting hero in the TFA. I thought he took a big step back here as I just didn’t much like anything they decided to do with him. And while resolved, his conflict with Phasma fell flat. And the entire Casino sequence was my least liked of the movie. I don’t know what they could’ve done, it just felt very Prequel-ish. And I really dislike those films.
I’ll chime in more later....
I thought Mark Hamill’s performance was AMAZING. But I thought the portrayal was not in keeping with the character. I guess at the end, he came around to being the Luke we know, but in the form of a Force projection. While they showed the true power he’s achieved and it was cool, I would also have loved for him to wield a real lightsaber for one last time in battle. I’m sure we’ll see him in Ep9 at the very least as a Force ghost. I’m sad that he’s apparently gone, but I had no problem with how the moment was handled.
I thought Finn was set up really nicely as a supporting hero in the TFA. I thought he took a big step back here as I just didn’t much like anything they decided to do with him. And while resolved, his conflict with Phasma fell flat. And the entire Casino sequence was my least liked of the movie. I don’t know what they could’ve done, it just felt very Prequel-ish. And I really dislike those films.
I’ll chime in more later....
Well, in the last movie we had another Force noob who managed to hold her own with a lightsaber against a trained quasi-Sith (I don't remember if Kylo is ever directly called a Sith, but Jedi is also not appropriate for him).
I get that it didn't feel right, and I don't disagree (it would have made an acceptable way to say goodbye to Leia, even if some of the rest of the movie would have needed work). But it's not near enough to make me disappointed with the flick.
I guess my verdict on The Last Jedi is it's not a perfect movie, but it's very entertaining, stands up well in the rest of the SW movies, and sets things up fairly decently for not just another movie, but for another era of Star Wars.
Don't forget, Rey trained her whole life with her Bo staff or whatever she had on Jakku. So she's a skilled fighter/survivor.
As for Leia and her force save...WTF?!?!? That was the perfect spot for her to die. I mean, she convinced Poe that he wasn't a shoot first/think later guy after that right? But anyone could have done that...or they could have put it before her death.
Anyway...I really liked this movie and these are mostly minor issues. Though the Casino sequence was generally useless.
Would have been better if they had to get to Mos Eisley Cantina to find the code breaker and he shot Greedo Jr or something. Lol
Agreed about the casino sequence. In a two and a half hour movie, it's something that could have been very easily trimmed to cut length. Still, I liked the guy feeding coins into BB-8, who ended up firing them at the guards. That was funny. I kept anticipating this after he fired them:
Glad I'm not the only one who didn't care for the casino sequence. Honestly though, there had been hints at a homosexual relationship in this one, and for a brief moment I thought that maybe Rose might be the one, but it was her sister that was killed in the bomb drop. And what's up with Finn and his love sick attitude for Rey? Between Rose, Rey, Finn and Poe, there were enough longing glances at each other, that any of them could hook up.