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Trigger pulled - PSA 15V

bmwuk

Well-Known Member
#81
Thanks @Flint . Not about self worth. Just learning new things. I have time to evaluate my room before even considering my next change or upgrade. The sub was just a consideration since from a dollar standpoint, it was a sub $1,000 spend. The preamp and amps, based on my recent upgrade are not going to happen this year most likely.
 

Flint

"Do you know who I am?"
Superstar
#82
Based on the logic you are sharing, it seems to me you are looking to buy something just for the heck of it because of price. I am suggesting it would be a huge waste of money given your situation. I believe you should be getting an outstanding sound from your speakers and current subwoofer and adding another won't make any difference unless you are willing to put the subs in some less than convenient locations.
 

bmwuk

Well-Known Member
#83
Based on the logic you are sharing, it seems to me you are looking to buy something just for the heck of it because of price. I am suggesting it would be a huge waste of money given your situation. I believe you should be getting an outstanding sound from your speakers and current subwoofer and adding another won't make any difference unless you are willing to put the subs in some less than convenient locations.
I am being talked out of the subwoofer. Not for the heck of it at the time, I thought this was going to be doable in back corners and help the system. It seem not. So then I won't spend the money. So may need to look at some other changes I wanted to do. This should be my long term system so even if we move this will still be my setup.
 

Flint

"Do you know who I am?"
Superstar
#84
Take anything I write merely as advice based on how I view things.

Personally, I would not spend money on stuff I think I might wish I have in the future.

Get what you need for the room you have now and for the experience you can make now. You've stated on multiple occasions that you cannot listen too loud, that the protection and safety of your kids running around in the room is of utmost concern, that you cannot go to great lengths on acoustic treatments. Really, you have an amazing system which is way more than you can appreciate at this time. In 10 years when the kids are older and less prone to accidents, or if you move, then you can look into replacing or adding gear. Products are always changing, usually for the better. So spend your money on the current plan and worry about future potential only when the need arises.
 

bmwuk

Well-Known Member
#85
After careful consideration I think I've come up with a wonderful idea to add additional subwoofers to my room. Can someone recommend to me a hanging bracket that I can place the subwoofer on and hang it from my ceiling in the upper corners of my room? I'm thinking if I can keep it off the floor I can add additional subwoofers and that way they won't get in the way of the floor space and no one will hit their head on them because I'll be placing them in the corners of the room.:smilingimp::smilingimp:
 
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bmwuk

Well-Known Member
#88
Okay. So are many people just wrong to have their setup with two subs in their front wall in between their mains and straddling a center console?
 

Flint

"Do you know who I am?"
Superstar
#89
Okay. So are many people just wrong to have their setup with two subs in their front wall in between their mains and straddling a center console?
Wrong? In many ways, yes. In some other ways, no.

They are wrong because they are not likely getting the best performance from their subwoofers and very often they are putting more subwoofer in the room than is necessary.

The best location for placing sub(s) producing a mono signal is very rarely easy to predict and is often not on the narrow wall. Given the limitation we all tend to put on placement - that they have to be on the floor - the ideal location for a single sub is most often in a corner as it fully excites every single room mode equally and gets the most energy in the room as possible. However, exciting all the room modes also means getting the deepest nulls in the response. So, where there are no nulls, the output in significantly increased, but the nulls are equally as deep.

Placing a subwoofer 2/5ths from a side boundary reduces the nulls from the walls to the side of the sub, but it also reduces the modes where the energy is increased. It also does nothing for the modes from the other dimensions in the room, front to back and top to bottom.

Putting two subs on the same wall 2/5th from the sides does nothing new in the room but increase the peak output by 6dB SPL because there are two subs instead of one. Having two subs in this arrangement when one sub will never be utilized to even half of its potential is simply a huge waste of money. If, however, you are pushing one sub very hard, adding a second will reduce the distortion increase the dynamic potential.

No, they are not wrong, because the characteristics above can get you a smoother response because of the 2/5ths placement on the wall (and that distance is very important - it serves no purpose to move the sub out of the corner if you are going to place 1/3rd or 1/4th of the way in from the side. It could get a smoother response in the room.

However, if you are going to put two subwoofers in a room using the theory of placing them 2/5ths from the side walls, it is WAY WAY WAY better to put the second subwoofer on a different wall than the first. That would energize the room modes differently and address the nulls from the other horizontal dimension. The top to bottom nulls will still be 100% present, but the side to side and front to rear nulls will be reduced just as the side to side and front to back modes will be reduced.

All of that said, the 2/5ths theory only works if the room is a perfect rectangle and the doors and windows are all closed. Once you introduce variations like a vaulted ceiling, cove, L-Shaped room, or whatever, you cannot merely measure a distance 2/5ths from the side wall and place a sub there and get real benefits. Instead, you need to purchase a solid modelling software package and calculate the best placements, or you need to experiment with various placements you are willing to live with and choose the best one(s).

The one HUGE caveat to all of this is the necessity that both subs are being fed the same exact signal, as in a mono 0.1 LFE channel and redirected bass from the other channels. If you are running true stereo subwoofers, the two up front placement is more ideal - but they would present a more natural stereo effect if they are outside the mains speakers, not inside.


So, in most cases those aesthetically attractive rooms where the owner puts two subs up front inside the main speakers are usually not a good setup - and rarely are they half as good as that system could be if the subs were better placed or if the funds spent on the second sub were instead spent on acoustic treatments.
 
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Randy

Well-Known Member
Famous
#90
Years ago I had a pair of Paradigm Phantoms (bookshelf) for my mains. I had built a set of stands using PVC and threaded rod for them.

Then I ended up buying a pair of Atlantic Technologies 8" powered subs to go with them. Hooked them up (speaker level in and out to mains) in stereo sub configuration and it worked fairly well. I actually had the subs sitting outside of the mains not inside, but this was our of shear dumb luck not any knowledge I possessed at the time. I liked where the mains sat for imaging and soundstage issues and didn't want to move them so I set the subs to the outside. LOL

Then I re-measured everything, took apart the speaker stands and cut down the PVC to reduce the overall height of the stands and re-assembled the whole deal in a sub-stand-speaker config using blu tak between everything. It worked surprisingly well and sounded pretty darn good.
 
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