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Article -- High End Headphones

Flint said:
People hate accuracy. They want smoke and mirrors.
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I will concede that most people do not prefer ruler-flat accuracy because it lacks excitement (myself included). But in the case of the K701's, I'd wager large sums of money that people are turned off by their severe lack of bass. And no, Flint, I'm not talking about inflated, excessive, artificial bass. I'm simply talking about the reproduction of low - particularly very low - frequencies. The K701's just fail miserably. The frequencies are either not reproduced at all or, if they are, the headphones distort something terrible.

I think the listener's musical tastes dictate whether they'll like these cans or not (i.e., Dave Brubeck sounds great with the K701's. Steely Dan, not so much.)
 
Flint said:
People hate accuracy. They want smoke and mirrors.
Click to expand...

One thing I have to ask though, why the sarcasm? I bought them, did not like them, I sold them.

Elitist,a love accuracy. They have to measure equipment to enjoy music.

See what I'm sayin'?
 
Finally, a discussion!

I was just making a joke. People should enjoy whatever they want to enjoy however they want to enjoy it. I am not offended people don't like the stuff I like most. I just defend the things I like just like you defend the stuff you like. It isn't personal for me. It is a joke.
 
Sorry Flint but that was not a joke, it was a STATEMENT. You didn't even bother to end it with a "lol" for Chrissakes. LOL!!

Anyways, the only way I could describe the 701's would be to turn the bass dial all the way to zero then turn the treble dial as high as it goes. That seems to be it's sound signature. I found it awfully thin sounding and extremely fatiguing.
I bought it used over at HeadFi for $150, sold it to another member who sold it shortly after. That seems to be the 701's legacy.

Back on point, I would like to hear the HE-6's but me gear isn't really built for those. And no way I'm starting down that path, bad enough I have the HD800's and the T1's on the way.
 
You keep repeating why you don't like the 701s, which is fine. But I feel I should get to keep repeating why I think they are the best headphones under $600 on the market.

I think you are wrong about the bass, but I get that the common trend today is to attempt to make up for the lack of body feel that typically comes from a subwoofer with headphones that have exaggerated bass. I get that, I really do. But I don't think our ears need it. I also think I listen to headphones louder than many people at which point the crazy physiological effect of the Loudness Contour comes into play. The louder the sound, the more you can perceive the bass. Maybe my perception of the phones that sound bass heavy to me is because I listen louder which means the bass is overbearing for me while at lower levels the bass may be fine because of the "loudness curve" they offer.

Whatever.

I love the K701 and K702 headphones and use them as reference cans for producing music and to enjoy when casually listening. I think they rock.
 
Flint said:
I listen to headphones louder than many people at which point the crazy physiological effect of the Loudness Contour comes into play. The louder the sound, the more you can perceive the bass. Maybe my perception of the phones that sound bass heavy to me is because I listen louder which means the bass is overbearing for me while at lower levels the bass may be fine because of the "loudness curve" they offer.
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That's something I hadn't considered and something I'll try to keep in mind as I experiment with headphones.
 
My experience - with BOTH the K701 and Q701 - has been the opposite of Flint's. I'd venture to guess our volume preferences are close but I found the louder the volume, the weaker the bass.

My first notice of this was using the headphones plugged in to my pre/pro, hence my purchase of the Woo. But no matter what they were connected to - pre/pro, Woo, keyboards, computer, or mobile device - the result was always the same.
 
Flint said:
You keep repeating why you don't like the 701s, which is fine. But I feel I should get to keep repeating why I think they are the best headphones under $600 on the market.

I think you are wrong about the bass, but I get that the common trend today is to attempt to make up for the lack of body feel that typically comes from a subwoofer with headphones that have exaggerated bass. I get that, I really do. But I don't think our ears need it. I also think I listen to headphones louder than many people at which point the crazy physiological effect of the Loudness Contour comes into play. The louder the sound, the more you can perceive the bass. Maybe my perception of the phones that sound bass heavy to me is because I listen louder which means the bass is overbearing for me while at lower levels the bass may be fine because of the "loudness curve" they offer.

Whatever.

I love the K701 and K702 headphones and use them as reference cans for producing music and to enjoy when casually listening. I think they rock.
Click to expand...

And I think you should keep saying why you think they are the best in the high end market, and I also think that everyone should give them a listen. But I also feel that you should maybe add just one more good set of headphones to your recommended list, there has to be at least ONE more that you liked right?
I personally think that everyone should try at least to sets of headphones, with completely different sound signatures. That way one can choose which is best for himself and not just go by what others say are the best. There are a shit ton of headphone users out there that love GRADOS, me, I hate em. But there are a shit ton of people out there that hate SENN's, me, I love em.

Also I very rarely listen at high levels. For one I don't want to damage my hearing as I already have slight tinnitus in my left ear, and two I find that it fatigues more quickly when I do.

One more thing, it's sort of a blanket statement to say that the average listener just loves bloated bass, and wants a subwoofer on his head, lol. I don't EQ my music and even when using my iPod as a source I leave the EQ function off. But I still want to hear bass, and at the deepest levels, and the 701 for me just couldn't go there. I also like the music to have a nice wide soundstage and the instruments placed where they should be. I don't recall how well the 701's were capable of those things but I like how the 650's handle those.
 
Zing said:
My experience - with BOTH the K701 and Q701 - has been the opposite of Flint's. I'd venture to guess our volume preferences are close but I found the louder the volume, the weaker the bass.

My first notice of this was using the headphones plugged in to my pre/pro, hence my purchase of the Woo. But no matter what they were connected to - pre/pro, Woo, keyboards, computer, or mobile device - the result was always the same.
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I have never heard the Q version but from all I have read about it it seems to be more of a marketing thing because most listeners claim the two models sound pretty much the same. If they had actually archived better bass response with the Q model I may have tried them again.


Or maybe I just never gave them enough "burn in" time. :laughing-rolling:
 
I find it really odd to hear these stories, because I can hear the bass just fine in my K701 and K702 cans. I use them as my reference monitors for recording, and I regularly hear the rumble of traffic outside on tracks and the AC rumble that my co-producers cannot hear on their rigs and cans. If the bass is completely absent, as you all claim, then I shouldn't be able to make out those things so easily while my buddies cannot. One of them used Beyer Dynamic and Panasonic headphones and the other Grado and Shure over ears.

As for other cans? I have gone on record repeatedly that I also love the Senns, pretty much all of their open back models are worth the money you pay for them. There are specific models from other makers I like as well, but I don't keep up on them and some have been discontinues. I don't like Grado, Beyer, or any of the fashion models. I've not heard some of the newer models, but trendy models like the Zik Parrots I found less than stellar.

But people should enjoy what they like. When making a choice they should read all of our advice. I just think you guys are either completely wrong about the 701 or you just have terrible taste - LOL (see that was a sarcastic joke meant not to be mean but to be a little silly and over the top just like all the hyperbole you are writing about the 701).
 
I think I need to stop reading all the hyperbole going around about everything until I get my ears on the Little Dot and the HD598s to compare with my Q701s on the Little Dot.

And I'd also like to get a pair of K701s just to do a quick compare. I would think that is a marketing ploy (K701 -v- Q701)....
 
It's all too subjective. At least with speakers there's some measurements you can do to show neutrality - though of course the room plays a big part, and RTA response isn't the whole story. With headphones, from the published response curves I've seen, the ideal response is far from flat. So it's up to the listener to decide.

I owed K701s for a long time, spent a lot of time with them. I loved them at first, but then after comparing to others, found that yes the bass was lacking somewhat - though I wouldn't go so far as to say completely absent - but more so, the very high end is rather bright/brittle to my ears. And that of course is subjective too, especially for us old farts whose high end hearing is deteriorating.

The K701s imaged well, from what I recall.
 
Flint are you using a dedicated amp with the 701's Are you using an EQ?

I read over and over about how people claim that the 650 has a veil on its sound sig but I have yet to hear it. I "think" it's from users not using the proper amp with them. So maybe the 701's benefit from something different then what I own.
 
PaulyT said:
... But more so, the very high end is rather bright/brittle to my ears. And that of course is subjective too, especially for us old farts whose high end hearing is deteriorating.
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I find that someone with deterioating HF hearing can find these OVERLY bright to be very troubling.
 
^--- Yes, that thought occurred to me as well.
 
Me too, I know I am more sensitive to those frequencies then I was years ago. Just another reason I sold my acoustic drums and opted for a nice electronic kit. I can play as quiet or as loud as I like.
 
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