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Is it finally time to declare the Rock and Roll era over?

Nah, to me "dead" means completely irrelevant and forgotten. I would say, rather, that rock has expanded to fill just about all the available space, after its initial explosion/expansion. (physics metaphor) But that doesn't mean it's gone.

Well, if that's the case, almost no form of music is ever truly "dead" and any thread which starts with a claim that an era is "dead" would be starting with a completely false premise. But, given that I chose the term "dead" specifically to spur participation because I think good non-political conversations help sustain the joy of participating in this forum, I think I chose the right word as we've been politely discussing this topic.

But, how strange it is that a simple word has divided us much?
 
Well if you hadn't insisted so much on your word "dead" being accurate and/or the best, then we wouldn't have needed all this discussion. :p

Look I totally agree with you that eras in music change over time. Renaissance, baroque, classical, romantic, impressionist ... it all started there. (Well not really but we don't really have as accurate knowledge of music that came before that.) This is just a continuation of those cycles.
 
Well if you hadn't insisted so much on your word "dead" being accurate and/or the best, then we wouldn't have needed all this discussion. :p

Look I totally agree with you that eras in music change over time. Renaissance, baroque, classical, romantic, impressionist ... it all started there. (Well not really but we don't really have as accurate knowledge of music that came before that.) This is just a continuation of those cycles.

I went back and re-read most of my posts, and I refer to the "era" of rock and roll being dead repeatedly and sometimes shorten it to "rock is dead" (since that was Pete Townshend's lyrics in "Long Live Rock") so I am not forced to refer to the era in every friggin' post. If one read my posts, I think that would be pretty clear.
 
I guess that proves that learning to compose and write a cogent argument is a pointless exercise.
 
So @Flint your whole point has been, and correct me if I am wrong and I know you will LOL, that rock and roll once moved, inspired and motivated an entire generation. I am assuming that from reading your threads you are referring to the spirit of rock and roll as well as the specific genre of music by your comments re: it moving a generation.

If that is the case then why isn't hip hop simply the rock and roll of today?
 
So @Flint your whole point has been, and correct me if I am wrong and I know you will LOL, that rock and roll once moved, inspired and motivated an entire generation. I am assuming that from reading your threads you are referring to the spirit of rock and roll as well as the specific genre of music by your comments re: it moving a generation.

If that is the case then why isn't hip hop simply the rock and roll of today?

That is pretty close to what I was trying to argue. Rock was both an influence on and reflection of about two, maybe three, generations of people in the western world. They were symbiotic, and new ground was broken in all areas because of, or reflected, in the music. It defined the energy and feelings of the change makers of that era. It was also an art form which broke new ground, experimented, grew, expanded, and imagined a new world. It was something special that meant something on so many different levels.

Before rock the biggest musical movements were combo experimental jazz (Miles Davis and John Coltrane, et. al.) which accompanied the communist beatnik movement and folk singers (Woodie Guthrie and his prodigies like Bob Dylan and Pete Seeger) which kicked off the Hippie activists movements in most areas. Out of that came rock and roll, which took on the mantel of trying to change the world.

But my point being that hoping to discover some new groundbreaking music artist performing Rock and Roll isn't likely to happen - and if it does happen the innovation will be average and the reflection of and influence on the new world will be very low. The era is dead. Hip Hop started supplanting it in the 90s and in some ways still has a hold, but it is in a place similar to where rock was in the late 90s. Fewer and fewer new Hip Hop music is moving the generation. Pop R&B is solid, but like all pop music throughout the decades, it is almost as disposable as it is constantly pouring forth. EDM is defining a generation. It is making a difference. It is the popularization of true anarchy and nihilism, which is the direction society has been headed for about 60 years, maybe longer if you include the early stuff in Germany and Eastern Europe at the beginning of the 20th century.

So, rather than us old farts acting like our Rock and Roll music is alive and strong and defining the future, like it was doing when we were coming of age, we should just accept the fact that we are no different than our parents were when we laughed at them watching the Mama's and the Papa's concerts during PBS funding drives or our grandparents watching Lawrence Welk in the 1970s.
 
So, rather than us old farts acting like our Rock and Roll music is alive and strong and defining the future, like it was doing when we were coming of age, we should just accept the fact that we are no different than our parents were when we laughed at them watching the Mama's and the Papa's concerts during PBS funding drives or our grandparents watching Lawrence Welk in the 1970s.

Sadly, yes.

On a different note, I know a bunch of high school and college age kids and have yet to hear anyone so much as mention EDM. I wonder if it is a regional or demographic thing.
 
Sadly, yes.

On a different note, I know a bunch of high school and college age kids and have yet to hear anyone so much as mention EDM. I wonder if it is a regional or demographic thing.


Hip Hop is WAY bigger locally, and especially with the kids I know, than EDM.

My step daughter is an EDM fan and likes the concerts and festivals, but she doesn't listen to it except at said concerts and festivals. I think its an atmosphere thing. Where as on a daily basis they listen to Hip Hop.
 
Hip Hop is WAY bigger locally, and especially with the kids I know, than EDM.

My step daughter is an EDM fan and likes the concerts and festivals, but she doesn't listen to it except at said concerts and festivals. I think its an atmosphere thing. Where as on a daily basis they listen to Hip Hop.

Mine both listen mainly to rock, though the older also listens to jazz, folk, bluegrass, blues and other stuff.
 
So, kind of going back to my point earlier which I may not have made clear. When I said "why isn't Hip Hop the new Rock and Roll", or even "Rock and Roll", I was referring to @Flint 's comments regarding Rock and Roll moving and inspiring a generation or generations. I kind of see rock and roll as more than just a genre.

I have even heard people make the comment that something is Rock and Roll even when not directly referring to the genre of music but what that genre does.

For example if somebody crashes a car off a cliff in some spectacular way, and survives, or does something equally spectacular couldn't one say "That's so Rock and Roll"?
 
So, kind of going back to my point earlier which I may not have made clear. When I said "why isn't Hip Hop the new Rock and Roll", or even "Rock and Roll", I was referring to @Flint 's comments regarding Rock and Roll moving and inspiring a generation or generations. I kind of see rock and roll as more than just a genre.

I have even heard people make the comment that something is Rock and Roll even when not directly referring to the genre of music but what that genre does.

For example if somebody crashes a car off a cliff in some spectacular way, and survives, or does something equally spectacular couldn't one say "That's so Rock and Roll"?

I am not sure what you are asking...

Hip Hop is its own genre and the culture and community and attitude it inspires and reflects is not the same as the Rock and Roll era. Where rock was "sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll" and generally representing doing expressly what the parents and "society" disapproved of, Hip Hop is strippers, whores, sluts, money, and overt displays of wealth and power. It doesn't challenge authority, it makes itself the authority, the leader, the one which cannot be ignored. That's a different culture, and it was a huge thing for several decades and is currently, according to the business tracking, slipping from it's past prominence. Before Rock and Roll, we had the folk singers who eschewed the establishment, and especially the wealthy and those in power. The Folk Singers were trying to get back to what truly mattered - love, peace, pride in the intelligence of the "every man". Jazz happened side by side with the Folk Singers and it was more about experimentation, people finding their own paths, and escaping from the control of the hierarchy.

They all have their thing, and they are all what they are.

However, Rock and Roll was and still is MUCH more widespread and adopted than Folk Singers, Jazz, Hip Hop, Dance/EDM, and so on. So it bears considering if and when it might become just the long shadow of what made it great 40 or 50 years ago.

What music is moving a generation right now? Well, there may not be one. The music industry, while financially better off than in the past, is not growing in-line with the standard of living. In other words, people spend less as a percentage of their income on music than at any time in my lifetime. It isn't as important. Fewer people are becoming super fans and almost no artist, song, or tour is being reflected in people's every day life. We are not changing our online handles to something based on current music or artists. We don't see people gathering at a party and joining in to shout the lyrics of some new song at the top of their lungs because it so hits home for them. That happened with Folk Singers, Rock and Roll, and Hip Hop. But now it seems very little music inspires such love. Lizzo seems to inspire people, but from what I can tell her art is extremely derivative and her only attraction is that she looks the opposite of a super-model and sings about the empowerment of girls who don't look like super-models. Cardi B isn't driving culture, at all. And the pop stars are what they've always been, a string of plastic people singing throw away music we love to death for a month then forget about a year later.

The reason I believe EDM is the new thing reflecting and driving society is because it is only appreciated in "concert" with hundreds or thousands of fellow EDM fans. The festivals are always sold out and draw a passion from the attendees which is frightening. The DJs are individually earning vastly more than any equivalent artist or songwriter in other genres. And it is a language for young adults which they understand yet just about everyone else does not.

Remember, the Beatles weren't "The Beatles" so much during the period they were making music. As popular as they were, the majority of the folk living through their heyday were either completely unaware of them or knew very little and didn't care too much for them. Look at the overall top 10 charts from the 1960s and you wouldn't recognize most of the artists the majority of the nation was choosing to listen to. Yet, today we consider the Beatles and their peers from the 60s the definitive start of an era which lasted for 40 years.
 
My favorite cheesy cover band just released an original song! Check out the video. It is pretty funny and the song isn't bad either.
 
Damn. I was really hoping for more vitriol than that. I am seriously disappointed with the ineffectiveness of what I thought would surely be a better troll. Sad.

Okay, how's this...

K-Pop is to Rock and Rock as Lady Antebellum is to Country and Western
 
The legendary drummer, Bill Bruford (Yes, King Crimson, etc...), also commented on the state of current music:

“But those guys now are in a world where they have 50 years of tremendous popular music — or more. A hundred years of tremendous popular music, recorded and kept, retained, captured, that they now have to produce something better than that. So that’s how this works. It’s a tall order. It’s not easy.” Bill Bruford on the challenge for today's young musicians
 
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