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My gentle giant is silent (Heeman might shed a tear...)

One reason I'm thinking of moving to something different is because PSA subs are designed to deliver that mid-bass punch. In other words, they're intentionally not flat and they may've compromised performance in some other areas to meet their goal. Well, the room correction in my Anthem has a specific FR curve that it's trying to hit so this may nullify what the PSA was designed to excel at.
 
Flint said:
So... when it comes to low end roll-off... once the effective output drops to about 10dB less than the average, that is below the subs effective operating range.

A sealed sub will start rolling off sooner but at a more gradual rate.

A vented sub will extend deeper before rolling off but then roll off at double the rage (per octave).

When comparing two subs, one sealed and one vented, what you need to look at is the -10dB point which is 13dB lower than the RMS high output level in the primary operating range.

So, if the sealed sub crossed the vented sub at a frequency where the level of both is more than 13dB lower than the RMS peak level, then it is pointless to discuss the output below that frequency below that point.
Click to expand...
Which makes perfect sense to me.

So ignoring any marketing / advertising value of doing so, what technical value, if any, do you find in the information provided in the PSA tables that Zing has posted?

I'll go first. Without detailed curves I am not able to draw any solid conclusions. Only intuitively, the big difference between the XS30's lowest number, cf. it's middle number, draws my attention - again in comparison to the XV15. But again there's just not enough info to reach any conclusion.
 
And I'm talking only about the tables - not the fact that I've heard some of these subs and know them to be pretty amazing.
 
High output capability generally, but not always, relates to low distortion at lower levels.

So, if a sub can safely pump out 120dB SPL at 30Hz, chances are good it will actually sound better at 95dB SPL than a weaker sub which can only put out a max of 110dB SPL at 30Hz. While this idea isn't assured, it is one thing which may be true when looking at the chart.

In my world, tighter, more controlled output at the listening levels I like is what matters, and often a sub with very high SPL capabilities provides that sound better than other subs.
 
First, here is a pic of the old amp (on the left) and the new amp (on the right). The old amp weighed about 1/3 more than the new amp. The old amp had analog dials for all the settings for everything from volume to the parametric EQ. The new amp has a Multi-Function Display (MFD) for everything. Also, the MFD comes on when the sub first comes on but does go off after a few seconds (thankfully).

SVSAmps001_zps684c9356.jpg


John
 
Next, my observations with the 2 PSA XV-15s and the PB-13U. We calibrated the two colocated PSAs to the same level as the PB-13U and listened to some music, specifically a track from the "Celtic Woman" CD. The PSA's detail, or fidelity, was on par w/ the PB-13U but the extension wasn't there. For example, near the beginning of the song a large drum is struck. The PB had more "depth" to this sound while the PSAs sounded a little more "hollow".

When I read the comment in this thread about "mid-bass" punch that seemed to reinforce what I heard. The PSAs didn't seem to extend as deep as the PB. When they were turned up, the boost in the lower range got closer to the PB's level but the SPL meter showed that they were definitely hot (on the order of 8 dB hot).

Let's no lose perspective here, though. Those 2 PSAs still cost $400 less than the current PB-13U. In hindsight, one thing that might have been fun to would have been to calibrate a single PSA and see how an $800 sub performed in my decent-sized room. Oh well, something to do next time...

John
 
Oh, there WILL be a next time, but it will (hopefully) be in The Room 2.0. Don't panic too much; Jan and I both want a room at least as nice as this one when we move. That's why we'll probably have to build a house.

John
 
yromj said:
That's why we'll probably have to build a house.
Click to expand...
Post some plans before starting the construction. You know, just to build up the anticipation... :)
 
Flint said:
Remember... no parallel walls and angle the ceiling.
Click to expand...

The angled ceiling is being considered; however, the room will probably be rectangular. Keep this in mind: I love the current room so much I would be perfectly happy w/ a carbon copy. I have some minor changes in mind which will be discussed later.

John
 
Flint said:
Remember... no parallel walls and angle the ceiling.
Click to expand...


Sorry for the detour but... How far out-of-square do walls need to be in order to be considered "non-parallel? The same question applies to the angled ceiling. How much slope is enough or too much?
 
yromj said:
Next, my observations with the 2 PSA XV-15s and the PB-13U. We calibrated the two colocated PSAs to the same level as the PB-13U and listened to some music, specifically a track from the "Celtic Woman" CD. The PSA's detail, or fidelity, was on par w/ the PB-13U but the extension wasn't there. For example, near the beginning of the song a large drum is struck. The PB had more "depth" to this sound while the PSAs sounded a little more "hollow".

When I read the comment in this thread about "mid-bass" punch that seemed to reinforce what I heard. The PSAs didn't seem to extend as deep as the PB. When they were turned up, the boost in the lower range got closer to the PB's level but the SPL meter showed that they were definitely hot (on the order of 8 dB hot).

Let's no lose perspective here, though. Those 2 PSAs still cost $400 less than the current PB-13U. In hindsight, one thing that might have been fun to would have been to calibrate a single PSA and see how an $800 sub performed in my decent-sized room. Oh well, something to do next time...

John
Click to expand...

:text-bump:

I was looking at the specs for the Outlaw wireless system we used with the PSAs and noticed that its operating frequency is only rated down to 20 Hz. :angry-banghead:
 
Towen7 said:
Flint said:
Remember... no parallel walls and angle the ceiling.
Click to expand...


Sorry for the detour but... How far out-of-square do walls need to be in order to be considered "non-parallel? The same question applies to the angled ceiling. How much slope is enough or too much?
Click to expand...

Bump this.

There is a minuscule possibility that at some point I would be having a house built (or more probable a tear down/rebuild to specs) and therefore be able to design a room from the ground up.
 
CMonster said:
I was looking at the specs for the Outlaw wireless system we used with the PSAs and noticed that its operating frequency is only rated down to 20 Hz. :angry-banghead:
Click to expand...

Chuck, I'm not sure that any of the material we demoed had much information below 20Hz. The "machine talking to Neo" scene from the 3rd Matrix may be an exception, though. Still, I think it means we should get together and retest.

John
 
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