New Speakers

[CMonster]

When I do my next room, the biggest question I have is what sub to get. I still have not heard a non-IB sub that is better than the PB-13U, IMHO. IBs are tempting and a possibility but the noise they induce into the structure is a serious factor to overcome.

Everything else is basically decided on, except for where this is all going to be...

John

Showing my lack of knowledge here, what is a non-IB sub?? Is there an IB sub? I guess there would be.

Infinite-baffle. From http://www.ibsubwoofers.com/:

1) What is an IB subwoofer?

For ease of explanation it's convenient to think of an IB sub as a massively large sealed box alignment. This is overly simplistic, but it serves the purpose of an introduction until such time as greater technical explanation benefits the conversation.

Think of the baffle as an infinitely large boundary that provides isolation/separation between the front-wave and the rear-wave coming off the driver/drivers. For practical purposes this means the drivers are mounted so they share a common boundary between the listening room and an adjacent space. This adjacent space can be the attic, basement, crawl space, garage, or any room that shares a common wall with the listening area.

However the IB is created, there must be adequate isolation between the front wave and rear waves. Complete isolation isn't mandatory. This means that small cracks and openings, louvered doors, etc., aren't a significant problem.

 

[CMonster]

I wouldn't say SVS subs are bad, or that their build quality has diminished. They are still a very fine product and one you should look at if looking to upgrade your sub. They continue to provide excellent customer service as well.

Their performance/value ratio has diminished, however, as their prices have increased to the point of no longer being the value they once were (cover cost of advertisement, etc.). So, other companies produce a product of similar or better performance for less $. PSA is one company, and the owners also started SVS awhile back.

Just so I understand, the owners that started SVS, sold the company. Then they started PSA?

One of the founders, Tom Vodhanel (the 'V' in SVS), and I believe one other employee.

 

[Flint]

It is nearly impossible to find what is considered a "good" sub at any retail store. So abandon any hope of going out and listening to one in a store before buying it.

How do you hear a good sub? Visit a friend with one, or attend an audio get together where there will be a good sub to listen to. Also, most of the companies who sell good subs offer money back guarantees.

You have to have faith.

 

[Snake Doctor]

When I do my next room, the biggest question I have is what sub to get. I still have not heard a non-IB sub that is better than the PB-13U, IMHO. IBs are tempting and a possibility but the noise they induce into the structure is a serious factor to overcome.

Everything else is basically decided on, except for where this is all going to be...

John

Showing my lack of knowledge here, what is a non-IB sub?? Is there an IB sub? I guess there would be.

Infinite-baffle. From http://www.ibsubwoofers.com/:

1) What is an IB subwoofer?

For ease of explanation it's convenient to think of an IB sub as a massively large sealed box alignment. This is overly simplistic, but it serves the purpose of an introduction until such time as greater technical explanation benefits the conversation.

Think of the baffle as an infinitely large boundary that provides isolation/separation between the front-wave and the rear-wave coming off the driver/drivers. For practical purposes this means the drivers are mounted so they share a common boundary between the listening room and an adjacent space. This adjacent space can be the attic, basement, crawl space, garage, or any room that shares a common wall with the listening area.

However the IB is created, there must be adequate isolation between the front wave and rear waves. Complete isolation isn't mandatory. This means that small cracks and openings, louvered doors, etc., aren't a significant problem.

Thank you for keeping it over simplistic. I am not sure I understand what you said. But, I thank you for trying to help me understand.

 

[CMonster]

Showing my lack of knowledge here, what is a non-IB sub?? Is there an IB sub? I guess there would be.

Infinite-baffle. From http://www.ibsubwoofers.com/:

1) What is an IB subwoofer?

For ease of explanation it's convenient to think of an IB sub as a massively large sealed box alignment. This is overly simplistic, but it serves the purpose of an introduction until such time as greater technical explanation benefits the conversation.

Think of the baffle as an infinitely large boundary that provides isolation/separation between the front-wave and the rear-wave coming off the driver/drivers. For practical purposes this means the drivers are mounted so they share a common boundary between the listening room and an adjacent space. This adjacent space can be the attic, basement, crawl space, garage, or any room that shares a common wall with the listening area.

However the IB is created, there must be adequate isolation between the front wave and rear waves. Complete isolation isn't mandatory. This means that small cracks and openings, louvered doors, etc., aren't a significant problem.

Thank you for keeping it over simplistic. I am not sure I understand what you said. But, I thank you for trying to help me understand.

Heh, sorry, I tried to take the easy way out by quoting another site. How about this: raw bass driver (no enclosure) mounted to wall and firing into listening area, back of driver in attic.

 

[Snake Doctor]

Thank you for keeping it over simplistic. I am not sure I understand what you said. But, I thank you for trying to help me understand.[/quote]

Heh, sorry, I tried to take the easy way out by quoting another site. How about this: raw bass driver (no enclosure) mounted to wall and firing into listening area, back of driver in attic.[/quote]

Thank you, that I understand. :text-bravo:

 

[Randy]

So, here is a picture of an infinite baffle sub as CMonster was trying to explain it.

So picture this enclosure is in a closet or the room directly adjacent to the theater/ listening area. The front of the drivers are exposed to the theater/ listening area while the backs of the drivers are completely isolated from the Theater by the wall separating the two rooms.

Again, a very simplistic example of what an IB sub is, but the important part is that they perform VERY WELL. Many consider this application to be the best you can get for subwoofer performance.

 

[Randy]

So, here is a picture of an infinite baffle sub as CMonster was trying to explain it.

So picture this enclosure is in a closet or the room directly adjacent to the theater/ listening area. The front of the drivers are exposed to the theater/ listening area via ports or slots or sometimes the entire front of the driver can be exposed while the backs of the drivers are completely isolated from the Theater by the wall separating the two rooms.

Again, a very simplistic example of what an IB sub is, but the important part is that they perform VERY WELL. Many consider this application to be the best you can get for subwoofer performance.

 

[jamhead]

So, would an IB create substantially more noise throughout a structure than a box sub if, say, the IB was enclosed in an attic? What about noise outside, through the soffit vents?

 

[Flint]

Eh.... It isnt that bad. I have IB subs and the sound level in the yard, or throughout the house, isn't much louder than a good large sub enclosure would be. Remember, bass is omnidirectional and.passes right through most home building materials like drywall and wood studdes wall.

 

[heeman]

Placement of an IB can be problematic.

 

[Deacon]

Hey, what is with you guys trying to dissuade from IB? Get it together people!

 

[Flint]

I am a fan of IB subs. I have one (two powerful 15" drivers mounted high on my walls with their rear output open in my attic). Best sounding sub I've ever owned and nearly as good as the much larger IB subs I've helped build or heard.

But it is a huge undertaking.

If Snake Doctor decides he wants the best bass performance on this planet, we will help him make it happen. But we are definitely going to make it clear that this isn't a simple project or he'll lose faith before he completes it.

 

[yromj]

My, albeit limited, experience with IB subs is that noise in the room and the rest of the house is an issue. I'm sure there are ways to eliminate this but it is something that must be addressed, IMHO.

John

 

[Flint]

Bah... In many ways the sound in the rest of the house is no different than any other sub that performs as.well. The problem is that an IB sub just performs.so.well below 30Hz that it shakes.everything.

 

[yromj]

Bah... In many ways the sound in the rest of the house is no different than any other sub that performs as.well...

I'll argue with you on that point. Since the drivers are mechanically tied to the structure, the vibrations are transferred directly and therefore more efficiently. The trick with installing these is in decoupling the drivers from the structure.

The problem is that an IB sub just performs.so.well below 30Hz that it shakes.everything.

That is quite possibly also a major contributing factor but the end result is the same: Increased noise from the surroundings.

Let me say this: I'm still planning on a thread sometime in the near future where we'll get into the design and implementation of an IB sub for me because the potential upside is PHENOMENAL; I just have to find a way to eliminate the negative impacts (literally).

John

 

[malsackj]

Getting the IB out of the attic is one way, but you would have another room that is beside the room getting the sound that has the back wave. I could do this for my music room and into my larger back space in the basement. The wife and mother would still have the problem of the upstairs having to much sound. One reason is the forced air heating and AC. The vents allow the sound to move around the house.

When running the PA system outside with the JBL 4530 scoops Loaded with 15 inch Eminance Kappa speakers. 450 watts to each (2). House Closed up and it was heard inside from 30 feet away. The scoops were pointed away from the house but it is still omni directional.

IB and Ported bass reflex speakers use two different speakers with different specifications, So you want to decide on what your wanting before purchasing the speakers to do IB. Then consider if these changes are going to be sold with the house. Is this a long term stay at the home and worth the install time, cost, and changes.

 

[Deleted member 133]

I'm one of the fortunate ones to have spent some quality listening time in Flint's HT and I must say that his IB subs are amazing.

Mind you I've also been to Soundhound's place and his big bass cabinets (if I can call them that) are the ne plus ultra set-up.

Jeff

 

[Snake Doctor]

I am a fan of IB subs. I have one (two powerful 15" drivers mounted high on my walls with their rear output open in my attic). Best sounding sub I've ever owned and nearly as good as the much larger IB subs I've helped build or heard.

But it is a huge undertaking.

If Snake Doctor decides he wants the best bass performance on this planet, we will help him make it happen. But we are definitely going to make it clear that this isn't a simple project or he'll lose faith before he completes it.

I do want the best bass performance on the planet. The problem is my media room is in the basement, and I live in a townhouse. My neighbors are very narrow minded, and most likely would object to having "free" fine bass, even the best on this planet, and most definitely the best in the our community, running through the floors and rafters.

However, I would be very pleased!! I like the best!! Did I mention that eyes glaze over when I talk speakers? So is there an alternative? :twisted:

 

[Snake Doctor]

Peace of Sound

BTW - Merry Christmas!!!! May the New Year bring you Heavenly Video, Angelic Sound and peace of mind.

:text-thankyoublue: For your support and great advise. (well good advise, how about okay advise, or....) Whatever Thank You for being there.
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. And I am very talented!!! :text-lol: