Paradigm Studio 20 v3 upgrade to Studio 60 v5?

[BrianZ]

oooohhhhhh, i see. it's Tom V. ok I get it. guess i've been away for too long.


but geez man, subs are big. i guess i didn't realize. i don't know if a ~20x20x20 XS15 is gonna fly, and that looks to be one of the smaller ones. i'm like 75% music over here and for many recordings i'm pretty content with the low end out of my Studio 20's. is there a way to get anything good that's just a bit smaller and still less than $1k? i don't know that i need realistic earthquakes, especially since my in-laws live right beneath us.

and if that's just the way it has to be then can you set stuff on top of these things? (looking forward to receiving the Stupid Question of the Day award)

 

[CMonster]

oooohhhhhh, i see. it's Tom V. ok I get it. guess i've been away for too long.


but geez man, subs are big. i guess i didn't realize. i don't know if a ~20x20x20 XS15 is gonna fly, and that looks to be one of the smaller ones. i'm like 75% music over here and for many recordings i'm pretty content with the low end out of my Studio 20's. is there a way to get anything good that's just a bit smaller and still less than $1k? i don't know that i need realistic earthquakes, especially since my in-laws live right beneath us.

and if that's just the way it has to be then can you set stuff on top of these things? (looking forward to receiving the Stupid Question of the Day award)

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-760

 

[PaulyT]

Yes, many of use use subwoofers as shelves for other stuff - in my case, cats or other speakers.

 

[BrianZ]

oooohhhhhh, i see. it's Tom V. ok I get it. guess i've been away for too long.


but geez man, subs are big. i guess i didn't realize. i don't know if a ~20x20x20 XS15 is gonna fly, and that looks to be one of the smaller ones. i'm like 75% music over here and for many recordings i'm pretty content with the low end out of my Studio 20's. is there a way to get anything good that's just a bit smaller and still less than $1k? i don't know that i need realistic earthquakes, especially since my in-laws live right beneath us.

and if that's just the way it has to be then can you set stuff on top of these things? (looking forward to receiving the Stupid Question of the Day award)

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-760

wow, ok. really?? wow. i assume it must be pretty good to be recommended here. but is it good for $400 or just plain good? my needs are for strong clear musical bass, as opposed to deeper & muddier (as i imagine everyone here would say). i mean, i'd be happy to double the price of this kit but if i don't need to then great. the size is definitely spot on too. i'm gonna really look into this. thanks!

 

[Flint]

There are some simple rules to getting strong, clean, bass:

1) Size matters. A small sub, regardless of the size of the amp, is not going to shake the room cleanly with good dynamics and truly blend with your main speakers. Sorry. No small sub can do that.

2) Sealed subs cannot play super deep, loud, and clean. It is the laws of physics which prevent this.

3) The best, cleanest, clearest, most musical and invisible subs are typically large with vented enclosures.

4) Good sub-bass performance costs money. Period. You are not going to shake the room with a $400 subwoofer and get clean, musical bass.

That little Dayton Audio kit from Parts Express is the best low cost sub as it is very musical and doesn't pretend to be a low-frequency beast like so many lesser subs. It just sounds good in the 40Hz to 80Hz range at clean moderate levels. It is the only subwoofer selling for less than $500 I have ever recommended. But it isn't going to shake your walls or make the lights flicker.

 

[DIYer]

But it isn't going to shake your walls or make the lights flicker.

But there is a downside to that though. Anyone care to guess? :eusa-whistle:

 

[BrianZ]

But it isn't going to shake your walls or make the lights flicker.

But there is a downside to that though. Anyone care to guess? :eusa-whistle:

yeah that's kinda my position too, if i understand what you're getting at. Flint, i really appreciate your reality check but shaking the whole building is not only unnecessary for me, it's even a bit undesirable. i'm not looking to really plumb the depths here, i just want to bring out another another 15-20Hz beyond what my Studio 20's can do. but it has to be really clear and tight too, that's a must. and i have to say i am concerned about the "truly blend with your main speakers" comment too. this seems like a must have as well. cannot a smaller sub like the Dayton get me a nice clear 15-20 extra Hz seamlessly? and if not that one, is there another that can if i spend a bit more?

 

[CMonster]

But it isn't going to shake your walls or make the lights flicker.

But there is a downside to that though. Anyone care to guess? :eusa-whistle:

yeah that's kinda my position too, if i understand what you're getting at. Flint, i really appreciate your reality check but shaking the whole building is not only unnecessary for me, it's even a bit undesirable. i'm not looking to really plumb the depths here, i just want to bring out another another 15-20Hz beyond what my Studio 20's can do. but it has to be really clear and tight too, that's a must. and i have to say i am concerned about the "truly blend with your main speakers" comment too. this seems like a must have as well. cannot a smaller sub like the Dayton get me a nice clear 15-20 extra Hz seamlessly? and if not that one, is there another that can if i spend a bit more?

I've built a Dayton for my brother's HT system and the one I originally had for myself is now in my best friend's system. Trust me when I say it will do exactly what you're looking for - no need to spend a penny more.

 

[heeman]

That little sub is a great compliment to the Studio 20's, particularly in your situation. $400 would be well spent!

:music-rockout: :music-rockout:

 

[Flint]

I recommend the Dayton sub all the time. It would be perfect as a tool to enhance the music frequency bass.

I wasn't attempted to discourage you from it, I was making a point about the realities of subwoofers.

 

[BrianZ]

I recommend the Dayton sub all the time. It would be perfect as a tool to enhance the music frequency bass.

I wasn't attempted to discourage you from it, I was making a point about the realities of subwoofers.

yeah doing some back searching i see that you are indeed a big proponent. cool. thanks, your perspective is valuable.

so i don't see any reason why i shouldn't give it a try. i have to ask one question though: why so much love for the 10" unit (T1003K) and virtually no mention of the 12" (T1203K)? just another couple hundred for what appears to be a pretty big gain specs.

 

[Flint]

Everything I wrote above is why the 12" model is not such a good choice.

The 12" model just doesn't perform as well in the musical bass range (40Hz to 80Hz). Also, it attempts to play that deep bass that is better for the larger, vented systems.

 

[BrianZ]

Everything I wrote above is why the 12" model is not such a good choice.

The 12" model just doesn't perform as well in the musical bass range (40Hz to 80Hz). Also, it attempts to play that deep bass that is better for the larger, vented systems.

yeah ok. i guessed that's what you'd say.

alright then, it's settled - i'm building a little sub! awesome. thanks so much, everyone.

 

[Flint]

You will love that subwoofer. Be sure to calibrate it properly and it will disappear and your main speakers will sound amazing!

 

[BrianZ]

I've built a Dayton for my brother's HT system and the one I originally had for myself is now in my best friend's system. Trust me when I say it will do exactly what you're looking for - no need to spend a penny more.

that's great. and thanks again for helping me find you guys' new home here.

i'll be sure to post my review.

last question: easiest way to set it up? i vaguely remember years ago reading about some Radio Shack meter or something to set the crossover correctly. is that still what people do?

 

[Flint]

For basic subwoofer setup you can use downloadable test tones and a free RTA app on your smartphone.

The goal is to make the overall frequency response smooth and flat through the crossover region and don't set the subwoofer level by ear but by measurement or else it will be too loud.

 

[Bob R]

Late to the party here.

Brian, I have five matched Studio 20 ver 5's with a 25-31+ SVS cylinder sub.

The difference between without and with a sub is like night and day. Although I can shake the house with the sub, it is invisible with music.

There is no need to worry about matching the 20's with a good sub.

Think about a good SVS tube or box instead of the 10" from parts express. IMO the sub is where you want to spend some cash.

Good Luck

 

[Rope]

AudioTool App Screenshots:





Rope

 

[BrianZ]

AudioTool App Screenshots:

Rope

thanks. are these about the kind of curves i want to achieve?

 

[BrianZ]

Late to the party here.

Brian, I have five matched Studio 20 ver 5's with a 25-31+ SVS cylinder sub.

The difference between without and with a sub is like night and day. Although I can shake the house with the sub, it is invisible with music.

There is no need to worry about matching the 20's with a good sub.

Think about a good SVS tube or box instead of the 10" from parts express. IMO the sub is where you want to spend some cash.

Good Luck

thanks but that seems like too much to me, both in price and quake (actually i don't even see those model nos. on the SVS site anymore). i'm 99% sure i'm gonna give a little one a try.