Paradigm Studio 20 v3 upgrade to Studio 60 v5?

[Deleted member 133]

Just wanted to add my $0.02. I also have 20's v2 with an old SVS tube sub like BobR has. Outstanding 2.1 system. Shaking walls etc comes from a good sub that can handle LFE and/or real low hz signals. A great sub will give good clean lower notes, kick drum, etc. not bommie sounds. If no LFE signal...no ground shaking, just clean bass.

thanks, Barney. i know it's a bit of a gamble but i'm gonna take my chances that the 10" Dayton will give me enough. at $400 bones, small footprint and the good rep around here it's too tempting not to try. we'll see.

Latecomer (posting) to the thread - although I have been following it with interest.

I've never heard the Dayton, but I do trust Flint's advice (at least on audio-related matters ), so I'm sure that will work out just fine.

However, like Barney and BobR I too use an SVS tube (a 20-39 PC+) in a 2.1 set-up. I've played around with five or six types of speaker with it (including a pair of Studio/20 v.2) and if the sound was ever lacking it was never because of the SVS. While your mind is made up, I would encourage others who might find themselves in a similar situation to at least give it a try.

You could also check out my thread on the Chrysalis Photon 10 - which is the sub I'm currently using with the Studio/20's. They still come up for sale (new) on Amazon in the $500 range - but they are getting scarcer. Very small footprint. Very nice sound.

And to be completely silly (at least in some members' eyes) here's a suggestion: pick up a used Yamaha YST-SW160 if you can. (Even Soundhound has used a Yamaha YST sub of that vintage!) The SW160 works very well with the Studio/20's (I know - I've tried it). I bought mine used for for next to nothing ($60 seems to ring a bell) when I was visiting with MattB in Phoenix, and I had UPS pack it for me and I took it home as checked luggage! You might even get away with using the much smaller YST-SW80. (I have one of those as well - currently paired with some Minimus 7s (!) in my dining room) There's one on eBay right now with no bids at $0.99.

Again, this is only for the benefit of anyone else who might stumble on this thread. My point being that there are some perfectly acceptable, inexpensive (perhaps not the SVS), used subs to choose from out there.

Jeff

 

[PaulyT]

ok, i'll play with it.

since ALL mics have their own response characteristic (which is different from my ears) it seems this would be an issue no matter what you use, no? in fact since everyone's ears are different then i'd guess there's no such thing as 'neutral' anyway, lol.

and i'm glad you mentioned the vocal mic pop issue because i vaguely remember that my Tascam has a pop reducer setting or something. or maybe it's a wind noise filter or something. anyway i'll have to remember to turn that off.

True, all mics have some degree of non-flat response. But compare the ECM8000 with the SM57, it's radically different as the former is designed to be a measurement mic.

:text-link:

So even without a calibration file (which is readily available for the ECM8000), getting a flat room response with the ECM8000 is pretty close to neutral.

 

[BrianZ]

yeah that's a pretty different curve alright. noted. i guess maybe i'll try the hand-held recorder route and see how it goes. it will be a far cry more flat than the SM57. i think.

thanks for the extra input Jeff, but . . . I already ordered the Dayton this morning! in fact i already got my shipping notice from Part Express..

so what do i need exactly? my receiver (don't even say it, i know. baby steps.) has a set of Subwoofer Out RCA jacks and says this about them in the manual:

Subwoofer Out: Connect these jacks to the
line-level input of a powered subwoofer. If an
external subwoofer amplifier is used, connect this
jack to the subwoofer amplifier input. When a
single, mono subwoofer is used, make the connection
to the bottom jack.

so just a long enough set of RCA cables then, right? and do i just connect the bottom jack for mono or use both Red & White?

 

[Rope]

yeah that's a pretty different curve alright. noted. i guess maybe i'll try the hand-held recorder route and see how it goes. it will be a far cry more flat than the SM57. i think.

thanks for the extra input Jeff, but . . . I already ordered the Dayton this morning! in fact i already got my shipping notice from Part Express..

so what do i need exactly? my receiver (don't even say it, i know. baby steps.) has a set of Subwoofer Out RCA jacks and says this about them in the manual:

Subwoofer Out: Connect these jacks to the
line-level input of a powered subwoofer. If an
external subwoofer amplifier is used, connect this
jack to the subwoofer amplifier input. When a
single, mono subwoofer is used, make the connection
to the bottom jack.

so just a long enough set of RCA cables then, right? and do i just connect the bottom jack for mono or use both Red & White?

Single sub, single cable (LFE). Not to muddy the water, but duel subs would change that. Maybe another time.

You're going to crap urself after you get a seamless transition from the 20's to the sub. Where the 20's leave off, the sub will pickup and carry on.

Rope

 

[CMonster]

You just need a single subwoofer cable:
http://www.parts-express.com/cat/subwoofer-cables/155
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023603

Or, if you have a regular coax cable laying around for cable tv, you can go to radio shack and pick up these:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103580

Just connect the cable to the bottom jack of your receiver and one of the inputs on the subwoofer amplifier (usually the one labelled for the left channel). You'll also need some spray adhesive and silicone sealer to assemble the sub (an example of each is listed in the Related Products portion of the subwoofer product page on Parts Express. I probably should've mentioned you'd need those earlier. Sorry...)

Assembly is a fun little project and you'll get a nice, satisfying feeling every time you fire that puppy up. Enjoy!

 

[BrianZ]

You just need a single subwoofer cable:
http://www.parts-express.com/cat/subwoofer-cables/155
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023603

Or, if you have a regular coax cable laying around for cable tv, you can go to radio shack and pick up these:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103580

Just connect the cable to the bottom jack of your receiver and one of the inputs on the subwoofer amplifier (usually the one labelled for the left channel). You'll also need some spray adhesive and silicone sealer to assemble the sub (an example of each is listed in the Related Products portion of the subwoofer product page on Parts Express. I probably should've mentioned you'd need those earlier. Sorry...)

Assembly is a fun little project and you'll get a nice, satisfying feeling every time you fire that puppy up. Enjoy!

oops. i guess i should have watched the install video before ordering. would been nice to get it all at once without shipping cost. oh well. and hey, no mention of the loctite in the video. is that for the cab seems? or screws? both?

 

[CMonster]

oops. i guess i should have watched the install video before ordering. would been nice to get it all at once without shipping cost. oh well. and hey, no mention of the loctite in the video. is that for the cab seems? or screws? both?

Just the screws...

 

[BrianZ]

oops. i guess i should have watched the install video before ordering. would been nice to get it all at once without shipping cost. oh well. and hey, no mention of the loctite in the video. is that for the cab seems? or screws? both?

Just the screws...

it's just soft rubber sealant, right? what does it do for cabinet screws? (i assume you don't mean the speaker mounting screws too)

 

[CMonster]

Makes sure that the cabinet stays air tight. I put a dab on each screw before driving it in. Probably not 100% necessary...

 

[BrianZ]

Makes sure that the cabinet stays air tight. I put a dab on each screw before driving it in. Probably not 100% necessary...

oh ok. i just bought a tube of it with the Super 77 on Amazon so i might as well use it. thanks again!

 

[BrianZ]

"Out for delivery."
what a beautiful sentence.

 

[heeman]

"Out for delivery."
what a beautiful sentence.

:music-rockout: :music-rockout:

 

[BrianZ]

ok so it's all set. had some a small problem with assembly: i don't think the cabinet t-nuts are the highest quality maybe. one of them was so bad it just wouldn't take a driver bolt: i felt like i was stripping the bolt and it even came loose from the cabinet. after a few attempts to remedy the situation i gave up and replaced it had with one of the ones that came with the driver, which was much nicer and worked effortlessly.

anyway i'm also not really sure how to use this REW program. i set up with my Tascam hand held recorder as the mic. here is a screenshot of what i came up with. i did my best to get just a simple average line so i could easily see a hump and get a flat response but i didn't really succeed. is there a better setting somewhere? i'm quite sure the sub is not set up right - it hasn't melted into my system. placement might not be right either.

 

[PaulyT]

Yeah that looks a little strange. Is that for the sub alone, or the whole system? Stupid question, but do you see the RTA response change if you turn off the sub or lower its gain (if it has one)? I'm just wondering if the mic on a recorder like that really goes down to 5 Hz with no apparent roll-off...

 

[BrianZ]

yeah it drops down a bit with the sub off; it looks like a sorta step down of about 10dB around 60-80Hz and then it still stays sorta flat all the way down to 5. but the curve so rocky it's really hard to make heads or tails of any of it. i dunno, maybe this mic has a very bass heavy response. i didn't expect it to be flat down that low.

anyway, is there a way to get this program to make a cleaner line? i set the averaging to make it as smooth at i could but as you can see it's still hard to see what's going on.

 

[CMonster]

Forget about the measurement program for now, IMO. Do you have the crossover on the sub disabled or turned all the way up to the max frequency (sorry, can't remember if it can be disabled)? In your receiver, are the speakers set to small and an appropriate crossover set (80 Hz is a good place to start)? By playing with the test tones generated by the receiver to adjust speaker level, you should be able to get a decent setting just going by ear. Does the sub have a phase knob or just a 0 / 180 switch? If it has a knob you may need to mess with that a little as well.

As for placement, you can try the floor crawl method by placing the sub in you seating location and crawling around the floor and listening for where a test tone played through it sounds the best (or at least the best sounding location that actually makes sense to place the sub).

Damn-it, we're going to get this sucker sounding good for you, I swear!

 

[Rope]

Forget about the measurement program for now, IMO. Do you have the crossover on the sub disabled or turned all the way up to the max frequency (sorry, can't remember if it can be disabled)? In your receiver, are the speakers set to small and an appropriate crossover set (80 Hz is a good place to start)? By playing with the test tones generated by the receiver to adjust speaker level, you should be able to get a decent setting just going by ear. Does the sub have a phase knob or just a 0 / 180 switch? If it has a knob you may need to mess with that a little as well.

As for placement, you can try the floor crawl method by placing the sub in you seating location and crawling around the floor and listening for where a test tone played through it sounds the best (or at least the best sounding location that actually makes sense to place the sub).

Damn-it, we're going to get this sucker sounding good for you, I swear!

^^
THIS!
A Radio Shack SPL meter would be adviseable in setting speaker level and is a great tool you will use regularly.

When performing the "floor crawl", attempt doing it with no one present, and if you're able lock the doors so no one walks in on you.

Rope

 

[BrianZ]

yes it has a crossover knob (40 to 180Hz) and a 0/180 phase switch. i changed the placement (only really have 2 options) and made adjustments by ear and it's getting a lot closer. looking like somewhere near 25% on the crossover might be the ticket, which is about 80Hz. i'll get to mess with it more this weekend. thanks, fellas.

 

[PaulyT]

Yeah we geek out over mics and rta graphs and such, but getting it to SOUND good is really the most important part. Manually playing around with the sub settings and room placement and listening to the results is a good thing to experience, anyway.

 

[malsackj]

Measurements are like pictures and are a confirmation of what we hear or think we are hearing.

They can also help to find problems when you find something strange and can help to justify if adding
the sound control acoustic panels really fixed some problem in the room.