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Some senior moment questions

Haywood

Well-Known Member
Famous
#21
That depends on the amps being used. Generally, stand alone actually sound and perform better than most receiver amps, so running everything off a stand alone amp should be a better option. Of course, if all of the amps are rated at a borderline power level, like 50 watts, your idea has merit, but if the amps are over 100 watts, and your speakers are 6 Ohms or higher, the stand alone amp is very likely going to perform better.
I see what you are saying.

Marantz SR6010 Receiver
Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08% 2ch Drive) 110 W

Marantz MM-9000 Amplifier
Amplifier Section Continuous power output (RMS) into 8 ohms (<.03% THD, 20 Hz - 20 kHz)
Front left and right channels 150 + 150 W
Center channel 150 W
Surround channels 150 + 150 W
Input sensitivity 100 mV/1 W Output
Input impedance 20 kΩ
Frequency response (-1 dB) 5 Hz to 100 kHz
Signal to noise ratio 95 dB
 

Flint

"Do you know who I am?"
Superstar
#22
While I cannot completely confirm it based on the data presented, it appears the power amp would be a better performing option for all the channels rather than the split approach you originally mentioned.
 

Dentman

Well-Known Member
#23
Congrats!
Denon's amp are even close to the same quality they were 10 years ago, nearly no receivers amps are. I'm sure they still sound and perform more then well enough for movies. Music as well, for most folks. If you have the amp use it for your main chanels.
Nice buy.
 

Dentman

Well-Known Member
#24
While I cannot completely confirm it based on the data presented, it appears the power amp would be a better performing option for all the channels rather than the split approach you originally mentioned.
Check out some of the tests( youtube) Audioholics does on these modern receivers. They fall way short of the much older offerings from the same manufacturers.
 

Flint

"Do you know who I am?"
Superstar
#25
Check out some of the tests( youtube) Audioholics does on these modern receivers. They fall way short of the much older offerings from the same manufacturers.
I always assume receiver amps are subpar, but I won't insist on it unless I have evidence to support it.
 

Flint

"Do you know who I am?"
Superstar
#28
According to S&V lab tests, the receiver in question can generate a sustained 21 amps. I trust that test as S&V doesn't benefit from lying about that.
 

Flint

"Do you know who I am?"
Superstar
#29
But, here's the what I don't know:
  • Damping factor (output impedance)
  • SNR at 1W
  • Frequency response (beyond 20-20,000Hz)
  • Crosstalk
  • Capacity into 4ohms or 2ohms
  • IMD
...and other aspects. Most stand alone amps vastly outperform receivers amps in all those characteristics.
 

Dentman

Well-Known Member
#30
But, here's the what I don't know:
  • Damping factor (output impedance)
  • SNR at 1W
  • Frequency response (beyond 20-20,000Hz)
  • Crosstalk
  • Capacity into 4ohms or 2ohms
  • IMD
...and other aspects. Most stand alone amps vastly outperform receivers amps in all those characteristics.
Exactly!
 

Flint

"Do you know who I am?"
Superstar
#31
My point is, I don't know. There are small, light, and affordable Class-D (or similar digital style power amps) which can provide more than sufficient performance in all those areas. So, it is entirely possible for a receiver manufacturer to potentially make a product with more than sufficient amplifier performance for most speaker systems. I just don't know without all the extra tests being run.
 

Dentman

Well-Known Member
#32
My point is, I don't know. There are small, light, and affordable Class-D (or similar digital style power amps) which can provide more than sufficient performance in all those areas. So, it is entirely possible for a receiver manufacturer to potentially make a product with more than sufficient amplifier performance for most speaker systems. I just don't know without all the extra tests being run.
The tests I've seen performed by audioholics show they perform pretty darn well all things considered. However they fall short when compared to older units. Of course some did better then others. The newer Denon unit I saw tested fell way short of the're comparison unit, an old 4802 receiver. For decades Denon was well respected for the amp sections in receivers.

This isn't really news to many people. I'm sure you could fairly easily find the info if you have any interest. The gaines to be had by using a dedicated well designed amp are for the most point even greater today then they were a decade or so ago. Again for the most part.
 

Dentman

Well-Known Member
#33
The Denon X3400H

https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...ng-a/v-receiver-w/heos/1.html#!specifications

It was the only unit I could find at $500 or less with preouts. Plus all the reviews (both customer and "professional") were excellent.

I started wondering though that at 105 w/channel if there is a distinct advantage of running thru my amp (Outlaw 7200 which is 200 w/channel)

Thru the amp or not. Opinions?
Few things that you may not know.

1) Dont use Eco mode! It will limit you to around 20wpch.

2) keep away from setting it to 4 ohm if this applys to you. Always use 8ohm regardless of the impedance of your speakers.

3) You made the right choice for use with an external amp. Denon does a great job with its Pre-out section. The output voltage is much higher then man other receiver brands. I wish I knew this before I bought my Yamaha.
 

Randy

Well-Known Member
Famous
#34
My new(er) Marantz 7xxx, cant remember model number off top of my head, doesn't have anywhere near the balls my much older Marantz SR 870 has.

I have no measurements to support that, only seat of the pants.
 

mzpro5

Well-Known Member
Famous
#35
Few things that you may not know.

1) Dont use Eco mode! It will limit you to around 20wpch.

2) keep away from setting it to 4 ohm if this applys to you. Always use 8ohm regardless of the impedance of your speakers.

3) You made the right choice for use with an external amp. Denon does a great job with its Pre-out section. The output voltage is much higher then man other receiver brands. I wish I knew this before I bought my Yamaha.
Thanks Dent.

I would not consider using Eco mode

My SVS speakers are all 8 ohms so no problem.

Delivery is scheduled for tomorrow. Need to get someone here to help me move some things around so I can do physical setup.
 

mzpro5

Well-Known Member
Famous
#36
Downloaded the manual (268 pages) and have been reviewing. A lot of it is superfluous for those like us but have been reading up on some neat abilities.

Looks like I may be able to get rid of my Squeezebox as this receiver can stream music from my PC and directly get internet radio stations (which I listen to quite a bit)

Supposedly interfaces with Alexa, haven't read up on that yet.

This will keep me busy for a few days. :)
 

Akula

Well-Known Member
#38
Yes, you can use Atmos without overhead speakers- I did with my Marantz 6012 before getting the new speaker setup. Like with any other relatively modern AVR, it figures out what speakers you do or don't have and then it will adjust accordingly.
 

mzpro5

Well-Known Member
Famous
#39
Got the new Denon X3400h setup through the physical setup and over the weekend will be playing around with it.

It has a "different" sound than the Onkyo it replaced. can't quite put my finger on it, not better or worse just different. Of course I will have to experiment with differt sound modes. Chances are there will only be a couple I use on a regular basis.

The remote is pretty cheap and not the best. When I updated my Harmony One with new info the remote settings on the Harmony are way better than what is on the Denon remote.

It i nice to again be in the situation where everything is passed thru the receiver. I also got a new Roku Ultra 4k unit so I will be seeing if there is a difference between the new Roku and the Sony x800 for streaming.

And yeah I know pics.
 
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