SPOILER THREAD-- Star Wars Episode IV --SPOILER THREAD

[Akula]

OK, if you didn't read the title, here's another warning. In this thread THERE BE SPOILERS. This is for people who've seen the movie... it's so we can discuss it without giving spoilers to those who haven't seen it.


So, if you don't want the movie's secrets spoiled... TURN BACK NOW.

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AGAIN, SPOILERS, LAST WARNING.
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OK, if they haven't paid attention, it's on their own heads.

So, those who've seen it, what are your thoughts on what was revealed?

My only complaints were minor plot holes:
1) How, exactly, did Han and Chewbacca manage to be Johnny on the Spot when the Falcon lifted off Jakku? Seems a little far-fetched that they were right there at that moment. Maybe I missed a comment that explained it, but this was kinda hand-waved.

2) So, what's up with the Republic? So their home system got roasted, but wasn't there some kind of fleet? And what's with the Resistance/Republic combo vs. the New Order? Maybe I need to read Aftermath or look at Wookieepedia to sort this out, it's just odd. You'd think there's have been more of a rebel fleet available.


I'll leave some of the big reveals for others to bring up. I don't want to play moderator with this, I just want to shoot the bull with you all.

 

[Towen7]

I didn't like how Han and Chewbacca made their entrance either. Along those lines... I know that both sides had spies at Maz's canteen but what are the odds that both armies have their fighters show up within a minute of each other.

Don't get me wrong, I liked the movie a lot but the whole thing felt like a remake of Episode IV with elements of the OT arcs thrown in. A cute robot carries important secret info desperately being sought by both sides. The First Order has a station capable of destroying planets and has it aimed at the Rebel home system. They are lead by a good-turned-evil Jedi who wears a helmet which obscures his voice. (I wish they'd have given some insight as to WHY he wears the helmet because it seems like it's only there to make him more Vader-like.) The Rebels get intelligence revealing a soft spot allowing small fighters to destroy the huge station (Han even jokes about there always being a way to blow it up). The good guys sneak into the station to lower the shields and the fighters are successful and blow up the station. Meanwhile Rey discovers her power. I'm not sure how she become strong enough to over power Kylo Ren's Force power and beat him in a light saber battle. (Granted he was hurt but she grew up on a desert planet with no support or ANY training... but I digress). Fin's Han Solo moment where he decides that the fight was unwinnable and to leave and shortly thereafter have a change of heart and fight on behalf of the Rebels.

Now.. I do accept that this movie was made to stand on its own and re-using the plot devices and character types is intentional and is probably meant to bring those elements that made the OT so compelling to a new audience. An audience that may not have seen or really connected with those older stories. I'm also assuming that the parallels to the OT stories are intended to drive the message that there must be balance.

I wish that they'd have left a little more to the imagination and not just flat-out reveal that Kylo Ren is Han's son and Rey is (in all likelihood) Luke's daughter. It wish they gave the audience credit to know that the First Order is evil and didn't force-feed us the scene where the General is addressing the troops and obviously channeling Hitler. I wish that Captain Phasma wasn't so easily taken captive or had at least done ANYTHING to stop the Rebels.

Now... This may seem like a lot of criticism but I did very much enjoy the movie. It was fun. It brought back the look/feel of the OT and movie and I'm very much looking foreword to more. I want to explore how/why Kylo Ren was seduced to the Dark Side. I want to know how powerful Rey can become, presumably under the teaching of Luke. I want see Fin grow into a Rebel leader. I want to see what they do with the Poe Dameron character.

 

[The DirtMerchant]

There was a direct reveal that Rey is Luke's daughter? Didn't catch that one. I definitely think that is the case, but not 100%. There was a story line in some Star Wars books that Leia had twins that were stronger in the force than Luke (having said that, I think they are ignoring those books).

 

[walls]

I saw it last night and while I really liked it a lot IMO it seemed like more of a remake than a new film.

 

[Towen7]

There was a direct reveal that Rey is Luke's daughter? Didn't catch that one. I definitely think that is the case, but not 100%. There was a story line in some Star Wars books that Leia had twins that were stronger in the force than Luke (having said that, I think they are ignoring those books).

You're right. It wasn't a direct reveal and it's entirely possible that Ray and Kylo Ren are siblings. I hope that's not the case as Han and Lea talked a lot about their son and never once mentioned or even hinted that there was a daughter as well. If she turns out to be a twin I'd consider that omission to be misleading.

 

[MatthewB]

I understand hiding one child from the other. Much like how Luke and Leah were both hidden from each other. Also Ren was hidden off on a sand planet to keep her hidden from the reformed empire just like Luke was on tattoine when he was hidden as a child with uncle Ben and aunt Veru. It wasn't till Luke was Ren's age when Luke found Obi-Wan but yeah fighting Kylo and beating him without training was far fetched but we did see earlier in the film when Ren was resisting Kylo when strapped up that she began to realize she was stronger with the force.

The kid behind me started bawling when Han died and he was like 10 I could understand but to be killed by your own son in a touching moment was brutal.

 

[Huey]

I'll kind of echo Towen's statements, that this felt a lot like a remake of a New Hope, or at least that it borrowed heavily from it.

I guess one way of explaining Rey's use of the light saber, she did have that staff that she was very handy with, although Kylo had been training since an early young age. Finn on the other hand, also held his own for the most part, which for a guy that had seen nothing but sanitation duty, doesn't make sense.

The trailers were a little misleading, which probably adds to mystery of the movie, but for the first time flying the Millennium Falcon, she did more than ok. Minor gripes aside, I loved the movie. I'm almost sorry JJ isn't directing the next two, but we'll see where they take us.

Oh, and thought came to me last night. Something bothered me about Supreme Leader Snoke. We know he was only a projection, so I'm wondering if he truly is that big. Also, his skull looked oddly similar or at least there was a scar/indentation that reminded me of Vader's head.

 

[Towen7]

Finn on the other hand, also held his own for the most part, which for a guy that had seen nothing but sanitation duty, doesn't make sense.

Agreed. I have a few questions along those lines..

Fin said he was kidnapped as a youth and trained/programmed to be a Storm Trooper his whole life. Why would the Empire (sorry ... First Order) go through that training for a sanitation worker?
If he was a sanitation worker, why was he brought to the battle where we first see him?
In the scene where Fin uses the light saber to fight the Storm Trooper the Trooper uses a cool energy staff. It's possible that Fin's prowess with the saber if from training that all Storm Troopers have with melee weapons but, again, why would a sanitation worker be exposed to such training.

There has to be more to Fin than we're being told. Is he a full-fledged member of the First Order who is being manipulated by Snoke or others within the First Order to spy on the Rebellion (sorry ... Resistance)?

 

[Huey]

Yeah, I'm thinking there is a whole back story with him as well. Although there seems to be a Leia/Han thing going on between Finn and Rey, which further leads to similarities from the first movie, not to mention Finn was going to leave before the big battle just like Han was in the first one.

Kathleen Kennedy was quoted before the movie came out that all of the characters would be back for number two, so does this mean Han will be back? Also, I thought I read earlier that Kylo isn't an actual Sith, but I may have misread that.

 

[Akula]

I don't have a problem with the movie feeling like a remake. In a way, it needed to be. The prequels left such a bad taste in everybody's mouth there was a need to start from the start... again. I think that's also a reason why people are enjoying this movie- it's more of everything we've loved about the franchise.


And yeah, now that you mention it, Finn is sounding a bit strange. Could be he did the sanitation stuff during his training, hard to say. Like I said before, I like the entire package but the plot does have some loose threads.

 

[Huey]

I will say that if Rey turns out to be Luke's daughter, wouldn't that go against his training as a Jedi? Aren't they supposed to be celibate, as love and loss can lead to the dark side? Throwing that part aside, it would make sense if he chose to hide her on Jakku, as he either feared Kylo killing her, or the same thing happening to her that happened to Kylo. He was the one mastering Kylo when he turned, so maybe he felt he was to blame for Kylo, and didn't want the same thing happening to Rey.

I don't know if it really works into the timeline, but it has been suggested or speculated on the web, that maybe Leia and Lando hooked up, and that Finn is their off spring. Pretty far fetched, but dammit, this movie has left more questions than it answered. lol

 

[Towen7]

I understand hiding one child from the other. Much like how Luke and Leah were both hidden from each other.

No doubt. Seperating two children wouldn't be crazy (and would be yet another device borrowed from previous stories), but Han and Leah and Han had a couple of conversations about their son (Kylo Ren) and I think it unreasonable that they'd not mention any relationship to Rey after she was in the hands of the First Order.

 

[Towen7]

...but it has been suggested or speculated on the web, that maybe Leia and Lando hooked up, and that Finn is their off spring.

Since Lando was apparently the only black guy in the galaxy, Fin HAS to be related, right?

 

[Akula]

I will say that if Rey turns out to be Luke's daughter, wouldn't that go against his training as a Jedi? Aren't they supposed to be celibate, as love and loss can lead to the dark side? Throwing that part aside, it would make sense if he chose to hide her on Jakku, as he either feared Kylo killing her, or the same thing happening to her that happened to Kylo. He was the one mastering Kylo when he turned, so maybe he felt he was to blame for Kylo, and didn't want the same thing happening to Rey.

I don't know if it really works into the timeline, but it has been suggested or speculated on the web, that maybe Leia and Lando hooked up, and that Finn is their off spring. Pretty far fetched, but dammit, this movie has left more questions than it answered. lol

There's also the question of competence of parents. Think about it- they drop off Rey on Jakku, a world that seems to pretty much be a clone of Tatooine where climate and development is concerned (the only real difference seems to be fewer criminals and Sand People), with no supervision or guardians. At least Obi Wan left Luke with family to look after him. Whomever dropped of Rey did so to a young girl with zero consideration for her other than "well, she'll look after herself." Heck, it would have been kinder to entrust her to the Sith, at least then they'd have some interest in her well being. She ends up scavenging for items that get sold to a corrupt local overlord, and that's probably the best outcome one could consider for such a situation. She's astonishingly fortunate that she wasn't enslaved and sent to a pleasure house.


Anybody else thinking parents in this universe SUCK?

 

[Huey]

...but it has been suggested or speculated on the web, that maybe Leia and Lando hooked up, and that Finn is their off spring.

Since Lando was apparently the only black guy in the galaxy, Fin HAS to be related, right?

Well I wasn't trying to go there, but it has been speculated on the web, especially after the trailer dropped showing Finn using a light saber. And since Leia and Lando were kind of flirty, or at least Lando was on Bespin, I could see how some could come to the conclusion.

Akula, if I remember correctly, but I'll admit I was super excited watching it yesterday, but in the flashback of the little Rey on Jakku, she was holding onto to someone, although all you could see was the side of their body from the shoulder down. So she may not have been left all alone initially, just ended up that way.

 

[Huey]

Here's a :text-link: to an article that gives a little more in depth details about the characters from the movie. It's pretty interesting.

 

[MatthewB]

Could also be Mace Windu's kid.

 

[walls]

Finn on the other hand, also held his own for the most part, which for a guy that had seen nothing but sanitation duty, doesn't make sense.

Agreed. I have a few questions along those lines..

Fin said he was kidnapped as a youth and trained/programmed to be a Storm Trooper his whole life. Why would the Empire (sorry ... First Order) go through that training for a sanitation worker?
If he was a sanitation worker, why was he brought to the battle where we first see him?
In the scene where Fin uses the light saber to fight the Storm Trooper the Trooper uses a cool energy staff. It's possible that Fin's prowess with the saber if from training that all Storm Troopers have with melee weapons but, again, why would a sanitation worker be exposed to such training.

Not sure why this bothers any of you, there are jobs in the marine core that have ZERO use of using a weapon but still the marine that has that job has to go through all the weapons and hand combat Training like everyone else that wears the uniform.

 

[Huey]

I thought of that as well Walls, but he seemed very proficient for someone who was trained but hadn't seen any combat. It's a minor point for me and maybe it will be made more clear in the next film.

The internet is going crazy with speculation on Rey. Latest theory I've read, is that she is somehow related to Obi-Wan due to her fighting style. The article even went a little farther to hypothesize that maybe Obi-Wan had a daughter that Luke hooked up with, but that seems very far stretched.

 

[Towen7]

It doesn't bother me per sè but ... Basic training and holding your own against a foot soldier is one thing... facing a Jedi Knight (who mysteriously decides to not use his Force power to squash Fin) is quite another. It's a small matter but it immediately came to mind when I saw it.