SPOILER THREAD-- Star Wars Episode IV --SPOILER THREAD

[Deacon]

You make good points Akula but I think you are missing one important thought. The force and Jedi in general are not something that was a part of the everyday vernacular for people throughout the galaxy. If you consider the population of the galaxy then you realize that it is very, very, very unlikely that most people would ever encounter a Jedi in their lifetime. And even fewer would actually encounter them wielding their power in a demonstrable way.

Remember in Ep 1 remember when the Neimoidian commanders were panicking after trying to kill the Jedi and he asked the other if he had ever dealt with a Jedi before and the other one said no. Then he declares 'we will not survive this'. It seems clear that one of them had heard of he lore of the Jedi but the other had not.
Han says in Ep 4 that he had been from one end of the galaxy to the other and seen a lot of strange things but had not seen anything that would convince him there is some force that controls everything. Also on the deathstar the Empire commander refers to it as an ancient religion and the one Vader force-chokes calls it 'hokey'.

So clearly many if not most have not even heard of Jedi and some of those that have don't really believe they are anything special.

There seems to be few that know and understand the significance of a Jedi.

 

[Deacon]

I'm not sure I was clear, Akula....your answer may still be the same. But my statements were more about a backstory/storyboard/screenplay standpoint. If you were to watch some interviews with Lucas and others involved, that he had the stories kinda mapped out to an extent (meaning the prequels). But the prequels don't seem that way at all, at least to me. And some things were just utter nonsense, like Anakin creating C3PO. I do recall in ANH, Obi-wan calling Anakin, "Ani" and the Clone Wars were mentioned. I guess simply put, how much substantial story was present even though the first Star Wars movie ever and cinematic launching point was "Episode 4?"

I agree with you on your point Bats.

C3PO is one of them and also how come R2D2 can fly in the prequels but does not have that ability (or chooses not to use it) thereafter. It would have come in handy when escaping Jabba's sail barge instead of just falling off into the sand.

 

[Akula]

I'm not sure I was clear, Akula....your answer may still be the same. But my statements were more about a backstory/storyboard/screenplay standpoint. If you were to watch some interviews with Lucas and others involved, that he had the stories kinda mapped out to an extent (meaning the prequels). But the prequels don't seem that way at all, at least to me. And some things were just utter nonsense, like Anakin creating C3PO. I do recall in ANH, Obi-wan calling Anakin, "Ani" and the Clone Wars were mentioned. I guess simply put, how much substantial story was present even though the first Star Wars movie ever and cinematic launching point was "Episode 4?"

Good question. However much he had planned (and I have my doubts he had ANY of it planned), there's just not much evidence of any kind of planning. Lucas had said he saw it as a trilogy of trilogies, but quite honestly, there's not only more stories to be told in that universe, but the lack of cohesion between the trilogies also indicate a lack of attention paid to story if he had even done it.

 

[PaulyT]

So, for you folks who have seen this multiple times... something's bothering me. What's the deal with the planet-turned-weapon? Ok first, they're running out of successively larger death stars to blow up. What's next, an actual death star STAR?

But how did the order intend to use this thing? They fired it once. Then they had to recharge it by sucking the energy of the system's star. So - where did the first charge come from? And how would they expect to fire it a third time, since you can't just drive a planet around the galaxy... or was it supposed to have engines of some sort, too?

 

[Towen7]

There is no mention of it being mobile in the movie but as you noted it had to move after it was used to destroy the Republic's planets in order to re-charge to take a shot at the Resistance base planet. There are a few references on the interwebs to it being mobile.

FWIW, I got a very cool book of cross-sectional illustrations of vehicles rep the movie but Star Base is not included in the book.

But, as note in the second link below ... If it was indeed mobile, how did Fin know where it was? I suppose that once it was used to wipe out the Republic planets that tracking the source of the beams would be simple enough. Then all you have to do is look for a star that's rapidly loosing energy, how far/fast can such a thing move anyway.

:text-link:

:text-link:

 

[MatthewB]

Yep that's it. The nerd level has just leap frogged way past me with you guys.

This coming from a guy who still has thousands of mint condition original Star Wars cards and action figures.

 

[Yesfan70]

I think the thing that puzzles me is how fast they built the Starkiller base. It was much bigger than the two Death Stars, so that should have taken a lot more time than what was needed as far as man power goes. The fact that a good chunk of the Empire was lost when the last one exploded makes it even more puzzling. Maybe that was going on during the events of Return, who knows. The time and manpower invested in the two Death Stars and Starkiller Base doesn't make sense to me when you figure in how many Imperial lives were lost on those three bases.


EDIT: On another note, how come the Resistance was so small? Seems like after the Battle of Endor, they should be much greater in numbers than what was represented in ep 7.

 

[Batman]

Oh man I'm gonna get in trouble......but this is really in jest. This is a movie. A sci-fi movie......a slightly longer than 2hr sci-fi movie. :teasing-tease:

I didn't get the impression at all that Starkiller Base was constructed out of nothing, like the Death Star. This was a planet or moon that has it own climate, along with gravity, atmosphere and everything else that comes along with it and was already much larger than the Death Star. The First Order converted it into a weapon over the course of 30 years. The Empire wasn't completely extinguished at the end of ROTJ. And we're talking about a galaxy wide footprint here for both the Republic and Empire.

 

[Akula]

EDIT: On another note, how come the Resistance was so small? Seems like after the Battle of Endor, they should be much greater in numbers than what was represented in ep 7.

My understanding is that the Resistance and the Republic are two different things. The Republic is the government the Rebellion grew into, governing a good chunk of the former Empire. The First Order grew out of the piece of the Empire not owned by the new Republic. The Resistance was an insurgent group in the territory of the First Order- they are supported by the Republic but not run by them. The Resistance is viewed by the First Order as a state sponsored terrorist group, which is why they light off Starkiller base against the Republic's governing system.

Like Batman, my assumption is the base was created inside of a planet, not constructed from scratch as the Death Stars were. Keep in mind the second DS was built in the matter of a few years, so the Empire has impressive construction capabilities.

 

[Yesfan70]

I thought this link was pretty cool. Seems the First Order doesn't need as much energy as we were let on to destroy a system.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7n9eK_v2ZM[/youtube]




EDIT: I don't think I'm ever gonna figure out how to post YouTube videos.

 

[Towen7]

EDIT: I don't think I'm ever gonna figure out how to post YouTube videos.

You had it right except you have to delete the "s" from the https in the address of the video.

 

[Batman]

^^ I wish had the brain power to apply real-world Earth physics to hypothesize about Star Wars science and then, even better, perhaps make a living as a consultant to the filmmakers :laughing-lettersrofl:

 

[PaulyT]

Ha! That was awesome. I especially love the bar graph comparison of "energy to destroy a planet" vs. "power of the force." Good science, that! :laughing-rolling:

 

[Batman]

:text-+1:

 

[Yesfan70]

EDIT: I don't think I'm ever gonna figure out how to post YouTube videos.

You had it right except you have to delete the "s" from the https in the address of the video.

I did that, but get the "you need a plug in message" when I go back and look at my post. Must be something on my end if you all are able to see it.



Figured you guys would enjoy that!

 

[Huey]

I mentioned this earlier, and somebody else had the same idea. Looking at the pictures, there are some similarities, but I don't know. That would be a good twist. Is Snoke Darth Vader?

 

[Akula]

Snoke could only be Vader if the last few minutes of ROTJ got tossed out along with the rest of the EU. Vader came back to the light.

The ONLY way I could see this being the case would be if Vader/Anakin had a dissociative identity disorder in the Force. The throne room fight with Luke and the Emperor caused the Anakin personality to pop back up and take control of his body, so he technically dies in the light side and Anakin gets his Force Ghost. Meanwhile, his dark side persona (Vader) also dies, and this would be the first example of a Dark Side Force Ghost.

However, Snoke says he wants Ren to bring Rey to him. Thus, he has a physical location. Force Ghosts aren't physical and can be anywhere- Obi Wan was killed on Death Star 1 in the Alderaan system, appears on Hoth, Dagobah, and the moon of Endor. Yoda dies on Dagobah and shows up on Endor. Snoke, unless Dark Side frequent flyer programs suck, could have easily shown up on Starkiller Base.

 

[Huey]

Snoke could only be Vader if the last few minutes of ROTJ got tossed out along with the rest of the EU. Vader came back to the light.

The ONLY way I could see this being the case would be if Vader/Anakin had a dissociative identity disorder in the Force. The throne room fight with Luke and the Emperor caused the Anakin personality to pop back up and take control of his body, so he technically dies in the light side and Anakin gets his Force Ghost. Meanwhile, his dark side persona (Vader) also dies, and this would be the first example of a Dark Side Force Ghost.

However, Snoke says he wants Ren to bring Rey to him. Thus, he has a physical location. Force Ghosts aren't physical and can be anywhere- Obi Wan was killed on Death Star 1 in the Alderaan system, appears on Hoth, Dagobah, and the moon of Endor. Yoda dies on Dagobah and shows up on Endor. Snoke, unless Dark Side frequent flyer programs suck, could have easily shown up on Starkiller Base.

Yeah, the bring her to me, or even one of the last lines when Snoke tells the general to bring Ren to him would seem to imply that he is not a force ghost. I hadn't thought of that. On the other hand, I still think Vader/Anakin is going to have some part in the next movie. Some of the art work for the movie has a menacing looking Anakin, although it was never implemented in the movie of course. Maybe it wasn't Snoke that turned Ren, but his grandfather himself who somehow had drifted back to the dark side?

 

[Yesfan70]

Snoke could only be Vader if the last few minutes of ROTJ got tossed out along with the rest of the EU. Vader came back to the light.

The ONLY way I could see this being the case would be if Vader/Anakin had a dissociative identity disorder in the Force. The throne room fight with Luke and the Emperor caused the Anakin personality to pop back up and take control of his body, so he technically dies in the light side and Anakin gets his Force Ghost. Meanwhile, his dark side persona (Vader) also dies, and this would be the first example of a Dark Side Force Ghost.

However, Snoke says he wants Ren to bring Rey to him. Thus, he has a physical location. Force Ghosts aren't physical and can be anywhere- Obi Wan was killed on Death Star 1 in the Alderaan system, appears on Hoth, Dagobah, and the moon of Endor. Yoda dies on Dagobah and shows up on Endor. Snoke, unless Dark Side frequent flyer programs suck, could have easily shown up on Starkiller Base.

Yeah, the bring her to me, or even one of the last lines when Snoke tells the general to bring Ren to him would seem to imply that he is not a force ghost. I hadn't thought of that. On the other hand, I still think Vader/Anakin is going to have some part in the next movie. Some of the art work for the movie has a menacing looking Anakin, although it was never implemented in the movie of course. Maybe it wasn't Snoke that turned Ren, but his grandfather himself who somehow had drifted back to the dark side?

Because how Return ended, I think Luke succeeded in turning his father back, so imo, Vader was "destroyed" once Anakain turned back to the Light. The issue I have is the Sith are always never more than two (according to Yoda in TPM), so I never got how Dooku and others (if you count the Clone Wars cartoons as part of the story arc) are able to exist. If Yoda's comment is right, then how dis Snoke come to power and was there an apprentice before Ren?

I'm hoping the next movie goes into more detail about Snoke's and Ren's origins.

 

[Huey]

I've always thought that there could be more than two Siths in existence, but all Siths were paired, master and apprentice. I don't think Dooku was an apprentice until Darth Maul was killed.

From the artwork I saw on the web, it looked like the force ghost of Anakin had been turned to the dark side, maybe that's an angle they're going to work at it in the next film? I too hope they go into more detail about Snoke and Kylo in the next movie.