Suggest some speakers for me to look into...

[nelmr]

Well, I just a got a bonus today at work :dance: and got approval from my wife to do as I want :drool:

So here is my current HT setup:

Fronts Athena AS-F2
Surrounds Athena AS-F1
Center Athena AS-B2
Spare speaker Athena AS-B2
SVS 20-39PCi Subwoofer

Denon 3310CI

Room is about 5300 Cubic Feet.

My budget is nearly up to $2K. How best would that money get spent. The sub currently needs to be run 5dB low due to it's limited output in the room (at -10 REF). I also don't mind no longer having matching speakers (and even using the four Athena towers as surrounds and rears). I'm starting to adopt the idea the mains should be were the most speaker money goes. As regards mains, these are my considerations for auditions:
1) SVS MTS
2) Paradigmn Studio 60's
3) PSB Imagine T
4) what others?....

For subs:
1) SVS PB12-Plus
2) SVS PB13-Ultra
3) HSU VFT-15H
4) what others?....

Combination of Speakers and Subs? By the way, the reason I'd prefer towers for the mains is dynamics and efficiency. I don't' care for bass extension. But any bookshelf that match this I am game for as well.

Lastly my new receiver, when I bought it I know it is only rating for 6+ ohm speakers. The SVS MTS is 4ohm so I'd have to get an external amp. The paradigmns are rated 8 ohm, though this sterophile article on the latest versions suggest they are more like 4 ohms.

Here is why 4ohm speakers will not work with my receiver:

 

[-B-]

Speakers, look at anything in the Dynaudio line, if you find something close to budget I know a guy :eusa-whistle: I wouldn't be concerned with the Dyns being 4 ohm as they are a very stable 4 ohm. Normally at shows they hook a pair up to an entry level Integra receiver to demonstrate.

Sub, get the new one from HSU!

 

[yromj]

I definitely like your choices. I would add the Dyns as well, but I would recommend at least the Focus line. I'm not sure if they would be in your budget, though.

Also, check out the Mackie HR824s and HR624s. These are still some of the best speakers out there, IMHO. They will be in your budget. These are active speakers, though; and as such, require special considerations (pre-outs, wiring, and power).

John

 

[nelmr]

I definitely like your choices. I would add the Dyns as well, but I would recommend at least the Focus line. I'm not sure if they would be in your budget, though.

Also, check out the Mackie HR824s and HR624s. These are still some of the best speakers out there, IMHO. They will be in your budget. These are active speakers, though; and as such, require special considerations (pre-outs, wiring, and power).

John

I forgot about the HR824s. I don't think pre-outs would be a problem. What about wiring and power? I assume I just need a power outlet for each and run RCA cables to them?

 

[yromj]

Yeah, RG-6 will work fine. I ran balanced wiring for mine just because. It turned out that balanced wiring did benefit me due to some noise that I had in my system which was induced by the wiring for the lights. You can use balanced wiring as unbalanced, w/ RCAs soldered onto the ends, and then change later if you need to. You can't create balanced wiring w/ RG-6, though.

John

 

[nelmr]

How do the Mackies compare to the speakers I listed (as well as the Dyn Focus 140, 110, and the PSB Image T6). All the ones I listed seem to be better if I got a separate amp (more $$$).

Regarding the Dyns I'll have to see if any local shops carry any. $2k for the 140, $1.5k for 110 Focus. But at 4ohm they'll need a separate amp. So it's probably too expensive.

Best case scenario for me would be to find a good deal and spend around 2K or less on the HSU sub and the speakers. The mackies would come close:

Using the best prices I can find:
Sub $ 1018 Shipped
Mackies $1231.90 shipped
=====================
$2250. Still more than I want to spend but it's close....

The PSB T6 ($1200/pair) would aslo be about the same price. It's another option.

 

[yromj]

Personally, I would put the Mackies between the MTSs and the Focus 140s. That's my humble opinion, others will vary.

As for the Dyns, what -B- said is dead on. You don't need a different amp for them. I've got two friends using Dyns on standard receivers. One is an Onkyo (2 years old, don't remember the model no.) and the other one is a Yamaha RX-A700. Both systems are just fine. I even ran a pair of 140s for a couple of months on an old JVC receiver w/o any issues at all.

As for Dyn pricing, you want to put a search light in the sky w/ the proper symbol on it... :eusa-whistle:

John

 

[nelmr]

Personally, I would put the Mackies between the MTSs and the Focus 140s. That's my humble opinion, others will vary.

As for the Dyns, what -B- said is dead on. You don't need a different amp for them. I've got two friends using Dyns on standard receivers. One is an Onkyo (2 years old, don't remember the model no.) and the other one is a Yamaha RX-A700. Both systems are just fine. I even ran a pair of 140s for a couple of months on an old JVC receiver w/o any issues at all.

As for Dyn pricing, you want to put a search light in the sky w/ the proper symbol on it... :eusa-whistle:

John

That may be, but the acording to http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/receiver ... ml?start=3, the Denon just doesn't do well with 4ohm speakers. Unless, I have misread it.

It also isn't too late for me to return the receiver and get something else like the Pioneer 1120. Though I still like the Denon over it, despite not having HDMI 1.4. But I have heard people not having issues with 4 ohm on the 1120.

Additionally, the Yamaha RX-A700 is rated to drive the fronts as 4ohms. Even my old 75watt receiver is the same (4-8ohm for the fronts only). The Denon is only rated for 6-16ohms on all channels.

 

[yromj]

I prefer Denon to Pioneer, but that's just me. If you were going to replace w/ the Denon w/ anything I would consider Onkyo/Integra or Yamaha, in that order.

John

 

[nelmr]

I prefer Denon to Pioneer, but that's just me. If you were going to replace w/ the Denon w/ anything I would consider Onkyo/Integra or Yamaha, in that order.

John

Well, I too prefer denon over pioneer (that's why I didn't by the 1120 even though it was $100 cheaper and had HDMI 1.4). I didn't think it not being able to drive 4ohm speakers would have been an issue as my current ones are 8ohms. Getting a $1200 receiver for $600 was a hard deal to pass up. It's hard for me to think that a current receiver that normally sells for ~600 would have the same quality of last years model half off. I would think the quality of the components would be better. Perhaps that was not the most correct thinking?

The problem with returning is that I bought from Amazon. I'm sure I'll have to pay shipping on the 30lbs. Not to mention the 2-3 weeks period for the return process.

Looking on amazon the next best receiver option to me seems to be the Onkyo 708 for $550. It is rated for 4 ohm as well. Is a network receiver like the Denon. Similar power specs. Has preouts. So, other than the HD radio (which only receives 2 channels for me in the Denon - not really worth it IMO), I don't think I'd loose much with it.

 

[AndySTL]

Take a look at these beauties.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1297012832&/Jm-Labs-Focal-Micro-Utopias-Be

 

[nelmr]

Well the Denon is on it's way back (Onkyo here we come...)

AND... I just pulled the trigger on the VTF-15H!

I am going to wait on the speakers until I can get a good deal on something I really want (don't want to spend MSRP). With the Onkyo I can do active speakers or 4ohms in addition to easy to drive speakers. So It gives me much more flexibility.

At this point, I'd prefer to keep the budget for the mains to around @1200/pair. I don't mind used (I saw the PSB Imagine T on Audigon for 1150/pair).

I can also save longer to increase that budget (though $2k still would be max). I also want to audition as many as I can. My local mom and pop store has paradigm, vienna acoustics, boston acoustics, Joesph Audio, and a few others. I don't know if they have Dynns or not though. Have to find out.

 

[-B-]

Go check out some Dynaudio offerings, they are really hard to beat in my opinion. If you decide on something that suits your liking ping myself or Batman...we happen to be a dealer. My opinion on Dynaudio would be the same even if they were not on my line card.

Other speakers I like in no particular order:
Totem
KEF
Paradigm
Focal
Mackie

Congrats on the Onkyo, my 805 has been good to me over the past 3 years. And on the HSU, mine has been good for 5/6 years.

BTW....you SUCK! :eusa-clap:

 

[Towen7]

AND... I just pulled the trigger on the VTF-15H!

Congrats on that... you ankle humping lemming.

 

[AndySTL]

Congrats on the HSU!

Here's another speaker consideration since you are willing to go used. There would be alot of jealous forum members if you picked up these!

 

[nelmr]

How does EPOS and Focal, in general compare to Dynaudio, and other brands like Paradigm and PSB?

Here are some floor speakers in the 2K range (and the bookshelf are about half that price):

EPOS M16i
Focal Chorus 816 V

For about $2K I could get the 816V, or the dynaduio 140. Which would be better assuming I am using a sub. The only benefit I can think of if extra dynamics on the floor speaker. But would a similar priced bookshelf keep up in that regard? Comparing the 816V to the 140, the tower speaker also has 5.5dB more sensitivity.

I know I would have to listen and compare. But I'm just trying to figure out how best to spend my money. I may not even end up getting $2k speakers. I may drop to $1k. At that price point bookshelves vs. towers are even more an issue. For example I could get the PSB Image T6 towers for that price, or the Imagine B6 speakers (in the next range up). Or Mackies HR824s if/when a store has a sale...

 

[nelmr]

Congrats on the HSU!

Here's another speaker consideration since you are willing to go used. There would be alot of jealous forum members if you picked up these!

I noticed that within about 1.5 hours from me someone on Audiogon is selling 1980s la scalas for $1200 obo. Would buying a 30 year old speakers like this be a problem. They list condition as 8/10.

How does the la scalas sound compared to the klipschorn you picture?

 

[-B-]

How does EPOS and Focal, in general compare to Dynaudio, and other brands like Paradigm and PSB?

Here are some floor speakers in the 2K range (and the bookshelf are about half that price):

EPOS M16i
Focal Chorus 816 V

For about $2K I could get the 816V, or the dynaduio 140. Which would be better assuming I am using a sub. The only benefit I can think of if extra dynamics on the floor speaker. But would a similar priced bookshelf keep up in that regard? Comparing the 816V to the 140, the tower speaker also has 5.5dB more sensitivity.

I know I would have to listen and compare. But I'm just trying to figure out how best to spend my money. I may not even end up getting $2k speakers. I may drop to $1k. At that price point bookshelves vs. towers are even more an issue. For example I could get the PSB Image T6 towers for that price, or the Imagine B6 speakers (in the next range up). Or Mackies HR824s if/when a store has a sale...

Can't comment on the EPOS, can slightly on the Focal. I like them, been a long time since I've listened and not that particular model. I remember them having a signature to their sound which is why I'm partial to Dynaudio because they don't, they just present what is recorded as neutral as possible. The higher up the ladder you go the better the detail, no phony bloated hi fi nonsense.

 

[Yesfan70]

It might be too late for me to post this, but if the 4 Ohm load of the Dyns paired with a Denon receiver worry you, than I would just pick up a cheap amp like the Berhinger A500 from Parts Express. The amp is only about $200.


I've heard that amp with a pair of Dynaudio C-1 bookshelfs, and thought it sounded much better than anything I've ever owned or heard before. Blows my Mackie setup away, imo.

 

[nelmr]

It might be too late for me to post this, but if the 4 Ohm load of the Dyns paired with a Denon receiver worry you, than I would just pick up a cheap amp like the Berhinger A500 from Parts Express. The amp is only about $200.


I've heard that amp with a pair of Dynaudio C-1 bookshelfs, and thought it sounded much better than anything I've ever owned or heard before. Blows my Mackie setup away, imo.

The C-1's are $6500 speakers! I sure hope they sound beter than $1300 Mackies! But from what everyone is saying, not just here, I'm beginning to think that Dynaudio makes some of the most accurate home audio speakers in the world. Judging by the this stereophile article on the C-1s it seems to validity that notion as well.

Regarding the Denon...

Well, I just finished packing the Denon up as the Onkyo came today. I did some comparisons between the two. From what I can tell the Onkyo is pretty much better all around. Here is why I prefer the 708 over the 3310:

1) It supports 4ohm loads
2) Is $50 cheaper
3) Has better bass management options (I can set the crossover on each speaker pair (fronts, center, rears, etc), whereas the Denon was just one setting)
4) Seems to have a slightly lower noise floor compared to the Denon. I hear less hiss when I turn up the receiver when nothing is playing.
5) Sound quality sounds great. As odd as it is, I'd even think it sounds better than the Denon (likely psycho-acoustics).
6) OSD has helpful quick change options (i.e. center channel level, subwoofer level, Audussey stuff if enabled, etc.)
7) Supports HDMI 1.4a

Things I don't like:
1) Doesn't "look" as nice
2) OSD isn't in HD
3) Lacks HD radio.
4) 8-ohm ouput a bit lower than the denon

Those cons aren't really a big deal. The HD radio in the Denon was pretty weak too. The rated power is 110 vs. 120 on the Denon and 0.08 THD vs. 0.05 THD. For 5 channels driven, test results seem to show the difference is more like 85 watts on the Onkyo and 112 no the Denon. This is a 1.2dB difference, so not a big deal. Power consumption is 6.3 amps vs. 7.0 amps.

Other then the listed differences, everything is pretty much the same on the Onkyo. It has networking, same number of connections (minus zone 3 and optical out).

I'm satisfied with the new receiver and feel much better about it than the Denon.