Heeman - Dedicated HT Room?

[Orbison]

Sorry for being slow to catchup, but am I the only one that finds it odd that Heeman had to nurse a severe tendon strain in his right arm, right after his wife was out of town for like two weeks????/quote]

Good catch Randy! oops! no pun intended! well....... maybe :teasing-neener:

 

[heeman]

Completed the rear platform...finally pulls the room together!

I assume this is for a second row of seating. Are you buying more of the same kind of theater seats you already bought or are you going with another idea?

I hope you'll attempt some more pictures. I think we'd all like to have a look.

See posts May 17, 2013 3:09 PM and May 27, 2013 10:20AM (This is for the IKEA Chairs and Temp Platform, the chairs are staying)

(btw - if you ever visit, please bring along your camera, because your photography skills are right up there!)

 

[heeman]

Uneventful update........................

Most of you know that I have updated my sub from the 2006; SVS PB12-NSD to a PSA XV15, a huge bump (no pun) in performance. I have had correspondence with Tom at PSA about setting up the SVS along with the PSA in the HT. This will be tried sometime in the near future, but not a priority at this time.

I have been resting my right arm due to a fairly severe tendon strain over the past month or so, however with little success. Molding is still not complete in the laundry/half bath and either is the cabinet that I started to build for Barbs laundry area. :angry-tappingfoot:
The Platform for the rear row is still not complete, still have the EPS Temporary one in place.

Today, I did purchase enough 1x4x8 to build 4 more acoustical panels for basic reflection point absorption. Will start the frames tomorrow at work, because as usual, we are slow.

I decided to check the hours on the X35 Projector and we are at 222 hours............... We went live on May 11th. We have been able to watch one movie per night, along with some great music listening, more on the weekends!

We have ZERO regrets about investing in this HT/Reno Project, our friends are just blown away.

Thanks again for all the support from all of you guys here, I would never have done this without all of your support and friendship!!!

Stay posted for some-more updates in the near future!!

:music-rockout: :music-rockout:

Sorry for being slow to catchup, but am I the only one that finds it odd that Heeman had to nurse a severe tendon strain in his right arm, right after his wife was out of town for like two weeks???? :teasing-tease: :teasing-tease: :teasing-tease: :teasing-neener: :teasing-neener: :teasing-neener: :teasing-neener:

I am right handed by nature, however the left hand is my favorite for doing somethings................ :scared-yipes:

 

[DIYer]

Plans are 2d diffusers for each side wall from the main listening position. These will be made from EPS Foam and covered with the same black speaker grill cloth as the absorbers.

That may not be a good idea. It does absorb high frequency and not give the intended result of the diffusers. It may be better to paint the diffusers with color of your choice.

 

[Deleted member 133]

Plans are 2d diffusers for each side wall from the main listening position. These will be made from EPS Foam and covered with the same black speaker grill cloth as the absorbers.

That may not be a good idea. It does absorb high frequency and not give the intended result of the diffusers. It may be better to paint the diffusers with color of your choice.

Assuming that Heeman bought genuine grill cloth rather than just ordinary fabric, I seriously doubt that there will be any noticeable high frequency absorption taking place. When used with speakers directly in front of a tweeter, in most cases speaker cloth is near-perfectly acoustically-transparent and not noticeable (especially by old folks' ears, like mine and Heeman's). And when used to cover a diffuser? Likely an order of magnitude or two below detectability.

I say go with the speaker cloth: better looking and no effect on the sound.

Jeff

 

[DIYer]

Assuming that Heeman bought genuine grill cloth rather than just ordinary fabric, I seriously doubt that there will be any noticeable high frequency absorption taking place. When used with speakers directly in front of a tweeter, in most cases speaker cloth is near-perfectly acoustically-transparent and not noticeable (especially by old folks' ears, like mine and Heeman's). And when used to cover a diffuser? Likely an order of magnitude or two below detectability.

I say go with the speaker cloth: better looking and no effect on the sound.

Jeff

A few years ago, Flint, formerly known as IG, COF, posted measurements of with / without so called "transparent" speaker grill. It does show difference and some listeners may be able to discern it. As for having it in front of diffuser, it's a double whammy because the absorption happens on the way in and on the way out. I would say that's bad.
If it's painted black, it may not be visually noticeable at all, especially when the lights are dimmed or off.

 

[Towen7]

If the point is to stop a small amount of sound energy from reaching ones ear. I don't see how a small amount of absorption on a small range of the audible frequencies is all that bad a thing.

 

[DIYer]

It's just a theoretical talk. What I'm saying is, if someone is making efforts to acoustically treat the room, why not do each move the right way.

 

[Towen7]

This is where I'd expect you to say what is wrong with his plan and/or what the audible effects of a layer of speaker cloth in front a diffuser will be.

 

[Deleted member 133]

Assuming that Heeman bought genuine grill cloth rather than just ordinary fabric, I seriously doubt that there will be any noticeable high frequency absorption taking place. When used with speakers directly in front of a tweeter, in most cases speaker cloth is near-perfectly acoustically-transparent and not noticeable (especially by old folks' ears, like mine and Heeman's). And when used to cover a diffuser? Likely an order of magnitude or two below detectability.

I say go with the speaker cloth: better looking and no effect on the sound.

Jeff

A few years ago, Flint, formerly known as IG, COF, posted measurements of with / without so called "transparent" speaker grill. It does show difference and some listeners may be able to discern it. As for having it in front of diffuser, it's a double whammy because the absorption happens on the way in and on the way out. I would say that's bad.
If it's painted black, it may not be visually noticeable at all, especially when the lights are dimmed or off.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

I have also seen results from other tests that showed no audible effect.

To wit...

1. I have never noticed a difference in my own listening experiences;

2. When I sat as a listening panel member at NRC (Floyd Toole's studies) in the early 90's I recall asking whether the "blind" test results were affected by the speaker cloth material that prevented us from seeing the array of speakers in front of us and was told that it was truly acoustically-transparent and had no effect; and

3. One of my favourite audio writers / researchers was physicist Richard C Heyser. I have in front of me a copy of his May 1983 Audio review of the Koss CM/1030 speaker. On p.79 in the "Use and Listening Tests" section he stated that "Removing the grille had no noticeable effect on the sound."

I own six pairs of those speakers. I agree completely with his observation. There is nothing special about the speaker cloth used back then: it's simply a good quality cloth available on any speaker today. I can understand how in some cases people might want to remove the grilles for esthetic reasons. I can also understand that in some cases the frame (not cloth) of the grilles might lead to audible changes (ie. sound diffraction) if it is close to the drivers and/or badly designed. However in the big Koss, there is considerable distance between the tweeters and the edge of the cabinets. By the same token, putting speaker cloth across a diffuser will almost certainly have no effect. The amount of acoustic energy (and hence possible effect) with a tweeter placed but an inch or three in front of the cloth is orders of magnitude higher that the amount of energy passing through cloth in front of reflectors placed within a listening environment. If there is no noticeable effect in the case of the former (see 3 above) there is a hundred times less none in the case of the latter - even if it is passing through twice.

If you have personal experience similar to the above that would call this into question, please feel free to share it.

I'm all ears!

Jeff Mackwood
B. Eng. (Mech)

 

[DIYer]

This is where I'd expect you to say what is wrong with his plan and/or what the audible effects of a layer of speaker cloth in front a diffuser will be.

The thread title says, "Dedicated HT Room". It's different from having a HT setup in a family room or living room where aesthetics or WAF gets the priority. For a dedicated HT room, functionality precedes over appearance. At least that's what I thought it is for.

 

[DIYer]

Yes, I'm aware of that.

I have also seen results from other tests that showed no audible effect.

To wit...

1. I have never noticed a difference in my own listening experiences;

2. When I sat as a listening panel member at NRC (Floyd Toole's studies) in the early 90's I recall asking whether the "blind" test results were affected by the speaker cloth material that prevented us from seeing the array of speakers in front of us and was told that it was truly acoustically-transparent and had no effect; and

3. One of my favourite audio writers / researchers was physicist Richard C Heyser. I have in front of me a copy of his May 1983 Audio review of the Koss CM/1030 speaker. On p.79 in the "Use and Listening Tests" section he stated that "Removing the grille had no noticeable effect on the sound."

I own six pairs of those speakers. I agree completely with his observation. There is nothing special about the speaker cloth used back then: it's simply a good quality cloth available on any speaker today. I can understand how in some cases people might want to remove the grilles for esthetic reasons. I can also understand that in some cases the frame (not cloth) of the grilles might lead to audible changes (ie. sound diffraction) if it is close to the drivers and/or badly designed. However in the big Koss, there is considerable distance between the tweeters and the edge of the cabinets. By the same token, putting speaker cloth across a diffuser will almost certainly have no effect. The amount of acoustic energy (and hence possible effect) with a tweeter placed but an inch or three in front of the cloth is orders of magnitude higher that the amount of energy passing through cloth in front of reflectors placed within a listening environment. If there is no noticeable effect in the case of the former (see 3 above) there is a hundred times less none in the case of the latter - even if it is passing through twice.

If you have personal experience similar to the above that would call this into question, please feel free to share it.

I'm all ears!

Jeff Mackwood
B. Eng. (Mech)

Jeff, I haven't done a double blind test of diffusers with vs without fabric in front but I'm recommending what I've learned from experts. What you are comparing is soundwave traveling perpendicular to fabric (which you cite a blind test) vs soundwave traveling at shallower angle to fabric which has higher absorption coefficient (which you assume to be same as the former). Every audio expert I talked to would not recommend any fabric in front of diffusers regardless of how "transparent" it's claimed to be.

Again, the same point I made to Towen, functionality vs appearance. It's a dedicated HT room.

 

[Towen7]

I drove down to the Heeman HT yesterday for a three day weekend. More to come later but ... the Outlaw sounds and works great... The PSA XV30 is like getting kicked in the chest... The panels, though not permanently mounted make a noticeable difference.

This is one of the best performing HTs I can recall experiencing.

 

[Srvy]

Uneventful update........................

Most of you know that I have updated my sub from the 2006; SVS PB12-NSD to a PSA XV15, a huge bump (no pun) in performance. I have had correspondence with Tom at PSA about setting up the SVS along with the PSA in the HT. This will be tried sometime in the near future, but not a priority at this time.

I have been resting my right arm due to a fairly severe tendon strain over the past month or so, however with little success. Molding is still not complete in the laundry/half bath and either is the cabinet that I started to build for Barbs laundry area. :angry-tappingfoot:
The Platform for the rear row is still not complete, still have the EPS Temporary one in place.

Today, I did purchase enough 1x4x8 to build 4 more acoustical panels for basic reflection point absorption. Will start the frames tomorrow at work, because as usual, we are slow.

I decided to check the hours on the X35 Projector and we are at 222 hours............... We went live on May 11th. We have been able to watch one movie per night, along with some great music listening, more on the weekends!

We have ZERO regrets about investing in this HT/Reno Project, our friends are just blown away.

Thanks again for all the support from all of you guys here, I would never have done this without all of your support and friendship!!!

Stay posted for some-more updates in the near future!!

:music-rockout: :music-rockout:

Sorry for being slow to catchup, but am I the only one that finds it odd that Heeman had to nurse a severe tendon strain in his right arm, right after his wife was out of town for like two weeks???? :teasing-tease: :teasing-tease: :teasing-tease: :teasing-neener: :teasing-neener: :teasing-neener: :teasing-neener:

I am right handed by nature, however the left hand is my favorite for doing somethings................ :scared-yipes:

Train yourself to be ambidextrous or risk curvature of the spine

 

[Zing]

I drove down to the Heeman HT yesterday for a three day weekend. More to come later but ...

Take pictures of that new riser setup.

 

[Towen7]

I drove down to the Heeman HT yesterday for a three day weekend. More to come later but ...

Take pictures of that new riser setup.

Your wish is my command. Sorry for the crappy iPhone pics.

The pics are deceiving. The room feels a lot bigger than it looks.

 

[heeman]

Floor to Ceiling Front Corner Bass Traps.

Originally I was going to build (2) 2' X 4' ; 6" OC 703 and stack them. However I decided to build 2' x 8' (95.25") 6" OC 703 for each front corner.

I bought the lumber for the frames a couple of weeks ago. So yesterday after doing some chores around the garage, I decided to build the frames, cut the OC 703, install the 703 in the frames and use old sheets as the backing.

Today we put on the black speaker cloth fabric and placed both traps in the front corner of the HT. They fit just a little loose, so I have them at a slight angle. They are snug up against the floor and ceiling. Will demo later on today..........

I moved the 2 x 4, 6" OC703 panels that I was using in the front 2 corners to the first reflection points, replacing the 2" absorbers.

Unsuccessful pics with them in their positions in the HT.

 

[Babs]

I really like the riser set up! Sweet Keith!!! :handgestures-thumbup:

 

[heeman]

I have been playing with the little Nikon Point and Shoot Camera, trying to get a pic or 2 showing the floor to ceiling bass traps.

After taking many and screwing with the contrast and brightness, this is the best that I could do.

 

[Towen7]

Keith - it's not your camera's fault. Your room absolutely sucks up light. It's really, really hard to shoot.