MakeMineVinyl
Well-Known Member
WTF?
Heeman - WI Basement HT Build
- Thread starter heeman
- Start date
So I am assuming from this and the "how to achieve perfect sub something or other thread" that Flint is in WI and he and Heeman are having a great time.
Outfrickinstanding boys. Thats cool. Glad it is performing to expectations.
Congrats Heeman.
Last night we moved the subs around to get the best in-room performance. Today we tweaked the Left & Right speaker placement for best stereo and room performance THEN tuned the subs to the mains for the smoothest and most natural sounding performance. Now the sound is clean, clear, natural, and balanced and one cannot tell there are subs other than the room rattles and one's chest vibrates when appropriate.
Very nice.
The sound is amazing. When listening to a decent recording the speakers disappear and instruments, voices, and sounds just appear in the room where they belong - all with just two bookshelf speakers and two massive subs.
Very nice.
The sound is amazing. When listening to a decent recording the speakers disappear and instruments, voices, and sounds just appear in the room where they belong - all with just two bookshelf speakers and two massive subs.
Dude you look like a Leprechaun! Wheres your pot of gold? I want the gold!!!
Yeah 'cause all "just bookshelf" speakers can do that...
MakeMineVinyl
Well-Known Member
Ah, you beat me to it! Yes, an omni microphone like this should have a 90 degree incidence to the sound source unless there's something about this mic that I'm not aware of.Measurement mic facing forward instead of up? Also, @Flint, wouldn't it have been a lot easier to grow that beard a couple years ago instead of having the jaw surgery?
Keith and I messed around with everything in the room, from subs & main speakers placement to calibration settings to trying to isolate a faint hum & buzz we could hear in the speakers when we put our ears close to time. Sometimes we used test gear, other times we used our ears. Typically, I encouraged dramatic changes to things like sub placement just to amplify how a move could measure significantly different.
One very intriguing thing we did very early in listening was add two more absorption panels to the side walls in the room directly in line with the listener's ears. What we were noticing was what seemed like a saturation point in how loud we could listen, which I attributed to reaching the practical loudness limits of the speakers. But then I leaned forward about two feet and that compressed, washed out sound went away. So, we put panels to the side of the listener and solved what was a very important issues for Keith. He was contemplating yet another speaker upgrade prior to the discovery of what was an acoustical problem.
During those extreme placement experiments we stumbled on a much better placement for the two subs in the room. Ultimate, since the subs are playing a split mono signal, we discovered that one sub nearly in the middle of the wall behind the seating and the other sub on the right wall about 2.5 feet from the back wall resulted in a much smoother response. After calibrating the subs in that location, we sat down and listened to our reference recordings for bass performance and were blown away. The next day we played around with adjusting the subwoofer output distance setting on the preamp and discovered that the ideal performance was setting the sub distance to 0 feet. Hmmm... subsequent listening tests confirmed the measurements and there was much rejoicing.
As for main left & right speaker placement, we played around with all sorts of things and confirmed that measured peaks and dips in the 100Hz to 300Hz range were related to baffle-step and floor reflection issues. Realizing there were no simple ways to solve those acoustical issues, we focused solely on sound, specifically stereo imaging and balance. We finally found what seemed most ideal, which was a little closer together than when I arrived and the tweeters aimed just to the outside of the sweet-spot. This was followed by more reference music listening sessions.
Finally, on the last evening, it was all about watching concerts and just relaxing.
I made some recommendations for Heeman to see if it improves some of the minor issues we couldn't resolve while I was there, like addressing the baffle step and floor reflection issues, reducing the very minor remnants of a slap echo, and increasing the reflection characteristics of the room without adding echo (diffusors and slats).
That's that, but expect to see more as Keith applies the changes or shares specifics of what we did this weekend.
Oh, and Barb is great.
One very intriguing thing we did very early in listening was add two more absorption panels to the side walls in the room directly in line with the listener's ears. What we were noticing was what seemed like a saturation point in how loud we could listen, which I attributed to reaching the practical loudness limits of the speakers. But then I leaned forward about two feet and that compressed, washed out sound went away. So, we put panels to the side of the listener and solved what was a very important issues for Keith. He was contemplating yet another speaker upgrade prior to the discovery of what was an acoustical problem.
During those extreme placement experiments we stumbled on a much better placement for the two subs in the room. Ultimate, since the subs are playing a split mono signal, we discovered that one sub nearly in the middle of the wall behind the seating and the other sub on the right wall about 2.5 feet from the back wall resulted in a much smoother response. After calibrating the subs in that location, we sat down and listened to our reference recordings for bass performance and were blown away. The next day we played around with adjusting the subwoofer output distance setting on the preamp and discovered that the ideal performance was setting the sub distance to 0 feet. Hmmm... subsequent listening tests confirmed the measurements and there was much rejoicing.
As for main left & right speaker placement, we played around with all sorts of things and confirmed that measured peaks and dips in the 100Hz to 300Hz range were related to baffle-step and floor reflection issues. Realizing there were no simple ways to solve those acoustical issues, we focused solely on sound, specifically stereo imaging and balance. We finally found what seemed most ideal, which was a little closer together than when I arrived and the tweeters aimed just to the outside of the sweet-spot. This was followed by more reference music listening sessions.
Finally, on the last evening, it was all about watching concerts and just relaxing.
I made some recommendations for Heeman to see if it improves some of the minor issues we couldn't resolve while I was there, like addressing the baffle step and floor reflection issues, reducing the very minor remnants of a slap echo, and increasing the reflection characteristics of the room without adding echo (diffusors and slats).
That's that, but expect to see more as Keith applies the changes or shares specifics of what we did this weekend.
Oh, and Barb is great.
So close! My condolences, Jeff.
D
Deleted member 133
Guest
Thanks a fucking lot! Up until that point I was odds-on favourite to have a pair of brand new C2s drop-shipped to my house! Damn you Flint!
We're all patiently waiting for Keith's posts about the setup changes and how they are impacting his experience.
I for one, though, am not the least surprised that the upper volume limit was a problem. If anyone on this forum were to test that limit it'd be Keith.
I for one, though, am not the least surprised that the upper volume limit was a problem. If anyone on this forum were to test that limit it'd be Keith.
Having Flint as a guest was an all out blast!!! Barb and I really enjoyed his visit (I think that Pete did too).
-----------------------------
Just a slight lead in.......... Prior to Flint's visit I learned that the SPL Meter is my best friend. I did not have this problem in my Texas Theater, however understanding the difference between reasonably loud and very loud levels can cause equipment limitations. Knowing when I am approaching these levels is extremely important to me with respect to the expected/reality of the performance in my room.
------------------------------
Besides all the fun in the HT, we were able to talk about our lives, careers and our musical background and taste (The Who is the greatest rock band ever!!!)
Barb and I did the typical preparation for a friends visit by making sure the food, drink and accommodations were well prepared.
I took a sigh of relief after Flint listened to many demo tracks and commented "this sounds really, really good". This comment was the reassurance I needed to believe that all the hard work and money spent was worth every bit of it!
There are some weak spots as Franklin pointed out above, however with the extra absorption panels kicking around, we solve my main concern.
With Franklin being primarily a music guy, there were many hours spent just listening, however with a Flying Colors and Peter Gabriel concert filling in sometime.
After a rather long trip to Guitar Center, I picked up a mic, preamp, cord and stand so that we could use TrueRTA to look at some real frequency sweep measurements. I was always reluctant to do this in the past because of my limitation of my only Netbook. However the program loaded with no problems and worked great!!
I had yet to move my subs around prior to Franklin's visit, only because I thought they were positioned correctly and I have had limited time to tweak due to all of my business travel. The measurements looked really good, but could be better. After moving them, measuring and listening, it was one of those Holy Crap Moments.................spot on. Those huge bass traps and angled walls really did the trick....................
So when you take something that is "Really, Really Good" and make it "Better" and continue to tweak for near perfection, the noticeable change is how natural and fluid like the sound is in the room. I really don't know any other way to explain it.
Stay tuned..............................
-----------------------------
Just a slight lead in.......... Prior to Flint's visit I learned that the SPL Meter is my best friend. I did not have this problem in my Texas Theater, however understanding the difference between reasonably loud and very loud levels can cause equipment limitations. Knowing when I am approaching these levels is extremely important to me with respect to the expected/reality of the performance in my room.
------------------------------
Besides all the fun in the HT, we were able to talk about our lives, careers and our musical background and taste (The Who is the greatest rock band ever!!!)
Barb and I did the typical preparation for a friends visit by making sure the food, drink and accommodations were well prepared.
I took a sigh of relief after Flint listened to many demo tracks and commented "this sounds really, really good". This comment was the reassurance I needed to believe that all the hard work and money spent was worth every bit of it!
There are some weak spots as Franklin pointed out above, however with the extra absorption panels kicking around, we solve my main concern.
With Franklin being primarily a music guy, there were many hours spent just listening, however with a Flying Colors and Peter Gabriel concert filling in sometime.
After a rather long trip to Guitar Center, I picked up a mic, preamp, cord and stand so that we could use TrueRTA to look at some real frequency sweep measurements. I was always reluctant to do this in the past because of my limitation of my only Netbook. However the program loaded with no problems and worked great!!
I had yet to move my subs around prior to Franklin's visit, only because I thought they were positioned correctly and I have had limited time to tweak due to all of my business travel. The measurements looked really good, but could be better. After moving them, measuring and listening, it was one of those Holy Crap Moments.................spot on. Those huge bass traps and angled walls really did the trick....................
So when you take something that is "Really, Really Good" and make it "Better" and continue to tweak for near perfection, the noticeable change is how natural and fluid like the sound is in the room. I really don't know any other way to explain it.
Stay tuned..............................