I would agree with this. While not horns, my speakers are nearly six feet out from the front wall. Naturally, I think there's great depth to the imaging but @PaulyT has been here on a few occasions and commented multiple times about that depth.
JBL 4367 White Paper: How Good or Bad or the spec's ?
- Thread starter TitaniumTroy
- Start date
MakeMineVinyl
Well-Known Member
Kilpschorns are kind of screwed in this aspect. I know that people were aware of depth imaging as far back as the 1950s as I have several old magazines from that era which mention it as a trait of stereophonic sound. Maybe Paul K didn't think that was too much of a compromise for the advantages of that LF horn design, or didn't care.
TitaniumTroy
Well-Known Member
Well i'm single so no problems on domestic harmony, what about speaker Toe In? Re: crossover setting, it is currently set at 60hz, that did make it sound cleaner in the bass vs full range. I plan on getting a microphone to help do some more tweaking. Not sure what I will change about the room right now. I'm open to suggestions.
I can't stick poor Bat's with some funky speakers again, I'm surprised he let me come back the next year to another GTG. My apologies Batman.
Mmmmm, I think I floored the ZingMaster. Cool I like that.
I can't stick poor Bat's with some funky speakers again, I'm surprised he let me come back the next year to another GTG. My apologies Batman.
Mmmmm, I think I floored the ZingMaster. Cool I like that.
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MakeMineVinyl
Well-Known Member
Might try just running the JBLs without any high pass on the woofer so at low frequencies both the sub and JBLs will be working. I do that, but it depends on your room how successful it will be. At any rate, the JBLs can handle any bass, whatever you choose to shove at them - they ain't wimps.
TitaniumTroy
Well-Known Member
Also I am running the JBL LSR308 as active surrounds. I could never get my old Magnepan surrounds levels loud enough to match the mains, not a problem now. I thought Hacksaw Ridge was going to blow the back my head off, cool.
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TitaniumTroy
Well-Known Member
I took Ramis's advice and pulled them as far out in the room as I could, about 5'. This really opened up the soundstage, I have been experimenting with the tweeter level controls and crossover to subwoofer vs full range. A friend who also owns Magnepan's, came over for a listening session. He really liked their clarity, imaging and dynamics.
I think their imaging is more pinpoint, less diffuse and has greater depth than my Magnepan's. I do believe the Maggies have better microdynamics on the Tron Legacy score specifically some bass in the middle of the Outlands #9 track. But that is being pretty picky, I also think the Maggies do better with New Age music that has a lot reverb. They have a way of energizing the whole room with reverberation, which is probably not really in the recording but an effect of their dipole nature.
Also no problem with resonances as I felt I heard with the Magnepan's sometimes, also the bass is deep, and powerful, but never boomy. I like my bass as tight as possible.
Recently I was listening to some classic rock/hair metal song that I was pretty familiar with. The JBL's revealed how poorly the music was recorded, which I thought was interesting. Not to sound like I work for the Stereophile.
I think their imaging is more pinpoint, less diffuse and has greater depth than my Magnepan's. I do believe the Maggies have better microdynamics on the Tron Legacy score specifically some bass in the middle of the Outlands #9 track. But that is being pretty picky, I also think the Maggies do better with New Age music that has a lot reverb. They have a way of energizing the whole room with reverberation, which is probably not really in the recording but an effect of their dipole nature.
Also no problem with resonances as I felt I heard with the Magnepan's sometimes, also the bass is deep, and powerful, but never boomy. I like my bass as tight as possible.
Recently I was listening to some classic rock/hair metal song that I was pretty familiar with. The JBL's revealed how poorly the music was recorded, which I thought was interesting. Not to sound like I work for the Stereophile.
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MakeMineVinyl
Well-Known Member
Yeah, audiophile oriented speakers which the Magnepans are tend to make everything sound nice. That's not the case with more neutral speakers like the JBL where a terrible recording will sound terrible and a great recording will sound really, really great. The frustration is that it can be hard to find the really great recordings.
Troy, Listen to Dio's; Last In Line and/or Holy Diver...................... I just had one of those moments with the C1's that gave me goose bumps. I have never heard those 2 songs with such clarity and imagining.
Glad you are enjoying your new toys!!
TitaniumTroy
Well-Known Member
Thanks heeman, I love Ronnie James Dio.
TitaniumTroy
Well-Known Member
Looks the AES liked JBL's research used for, what I assume was the M2 Project.
http://www.jblpro.com/press/nov08/JBL_Voishvillo.html
NORTHRIDGE, California – JBL Professional is proud to announce that Dr. Alexander Voishvillo was recently awarded AES (Audio Engineering Society) Fellowship for his research in modeling and assessing the nonlinearities of horn drivers and other audio equipment. Dr. Voishvillo’s work at JBL is in the area of design and development of all new high-frequency professional transducers, several of which are patent pending. While at JBL, Dr. Voishvillo has also published and presented several research works on complex relationships between the subjective perception of nonlinear distortion by the human auditory system and various methods of objective assessment of nonlinearity in audio equipment.
http://www.jblpro.com/press/nov08/JBL_Voishvillo.html
NORTHRIDGE, California – JBL Professional is proud to announce that Dr. Alexander Voishvillo was recently awarded AES (Audio Engineering Society) Fellowship for his research in modeling and assessing the nonlinearities of horn drivers and other audio equipment. Dr. Voishvillo’s work at JBL is in the area of design and development of all new high-frequency professional transducers, several of which are patent pending. While at JBL, Dr. Voishvillo has also published and presented several research works on complex relationships between the subjective perception of nonlinear distortion by the human auditory system and various methods of objective assessment of nonlinearity in audio equipment.
MakeMineVinyl
Well-Known Member
I wonder how these new horn developments square with the reality of JBL maintaining it signature "house sound". In theory, if the geometry of the horn is changed, its sound signature will change somewhat. I would imagine that the last thing JBL (or any manufacturer for that matter) would want is for the signature sound they've had since day one to be changed, which would sort of negate their selling point to the market so a degree (or not).
Wardsweb
Renaissance man
@TitaniumTroy let me say congratulations and you suck. I love JBL and I love horns. Your speakers would seem to fit the bill on solid tight bass and open airy mids with depth and detail you get from horns. Message me if you would like to discuss some great quality recordings.
Now I want a pair of these speakers.
As for the idea of a signature sound, as Rammis mentioned, I have noticed over the years that JBL is getting into so many different specialized product lines that they can vary their performance significantly from price is no object products to entry level portable speakers. I would imagine the consumer seeking a PA speaker at Guitar Center would know and want the JBL "sound" if the front of the speaker has a JBL logo on it. Whereas, a touring company or permanent installation rig where the buyer is working with a proper sound reinforcement professional to design a system which accomplishes specific goals in the arena is seeking quality, performance, and reliability (and other aspects) which lend themselves to goals other than "signature sound quality" JBL is historically known for. This is also true of the higher end JBL studio monitors which often did not sound the same as their lower-end mass market siblings. I've also noticed that mass market copy-cats are less common than they used to be as quality PA companies like Feitall, Beyma, Gauss and others are making pretty darn interesting competitors to classic JBL systems, but with less innovative engineering efforts - just damn good manufacturing and attention to quality. I guess I am saying, like GM can do with vehicles by offering something for pretty much anyone, today's JBL offers such a wide variety of product lines they can easily offer neutral sounding top end gear for the limited discerning niche market.
As for the idea of a signature sound, as Rammis mentioned, I have noticed over the years that JBL is getting into so many different specialized product lines that they can vary their performance significantly from price is no object products to entry level portable speakers. I would imagine the consumer seeking a PA speaker at Guitar Center would know and want the JBL "sound" if the front of the speaker has a JBL logo on it. Whereas, a touring company or permanent installation rig where the buyer is working with a proper sound reinforcement professional to design a system which accomplishes specific goals in the arena is seeking quality, performance, and reliability (and other aspects) which lend themselves to goals other than "signature sound quality" JBL is historically known for. This is also true of the higher end JBL studio monitors which often did not sound the same as their lower-end mass market siblings. I've also noticed that mass market copy-cats are less common than they used to be as quality PA companies like Feitall, Beyma, Gauss and others are making pretty darn interesting competitors to classic JBL systems, but with less innovative engineering efforts - just damn good manufacturing and attention to quality. I guess I am saying, like GM can do with vehicles by offering something for pretty much anyone, today's JBL offers such a wide variety of product lines they can easily offer neutral sounding top end gear for the limited discerning niche market.
MakeMineVinyl
Well-Known Member
Could you just post a list of the ones you recommend here?