New SVS speakers - not what I had in mind

[Flint]

Batman, get some cheap speaker cubes, similar in size to Bozo cubes, and play with placement of the tweeter by mounting them on the wall where you think they should be for a perfect inwall setup. Then listen to the stereo imaging and room reflections to see if they need to be moved in or out. As always, put the tweeters at the seated listener's ear level.

 

[The DirtMerchant]

OK, so properly done, in-wall speakers can be a good or sometimes better choice.

If I purchased a pair of insert your choice of quality floor standing speakers here
and then built them into the wall...is that any good?

Might be a stoopid question, but...I'm just asking.

 

[Botch]

The reason I ask is because of a gaming area I've been trying to set up for the kids. I have pretty much everything required but the speakers. For the benefit of the forum :eusa-whistle: these would be something I'd consider once I see the price point. The screen is a 60" Xscreen which is basically the same size as an equivalent 60" plasma. Mounting it flush in the wall is doable with little work involved, since I have complete access behind the wall in question....hmmm

My Dad got me a clock radio... :violin:

 

[Zing]

My Dad got me a clock radio... :violin:

But your father isn't Batman!

 

[Flint]

OK, so properly done, in-wall speakers can be a good or sometimes better choice.

If I purchased a pair of insert your choice of quality floor standing speakers here
and then built them into the wall...is that any good?

Might be a stoopid question, but...I'm just asking.

The answer is....

No.

A speaker designed for placement out in the room, away from walls, will sound boomy and very, very heavy if put into a wall cavity. There are aspects of the crossover, driver compliment, cabinet tuning and such which are tweaking the performance for the acoustical effects of being away from the walls. If you go and put such a speaker into a wall, all those tuning choices will work against the sound.

 

[The DirtMerchant]

OK, so properly done, in-wall speakers can be a good or sometimes better choice.

If I purchased a pair of insert your choice of quality floor standing speakers here
and then built them into the wall...is that any good?

Might be a stoopid question, but...I'm just asking.

The answer is....

No.

A speaker designed for placement out in the room, away from walls, will sound boomy and very, very heavy if put into a wall cavity. There are aspects of the crossover, driver compliment, cabinet tuning and such which are tweaking the performance for the acoustical effects of being away from the walls. If you go and put such a speaker into a wall, all those tuning choices will work against the sound.

Figured.

So with in wall speakers...does "toeing them in" still apply? Is it necessary?

 

[Botch]

So with in wall speakers...does "toeing them in" still apply? Is it necessary?

I remember some of the Monitor Audio in-wall speakers had aim-able tweeters, I'll try to find a link...

EDIT: There are several, but here's one: http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/ci-series/cp1/cpw-radius/your-speaker

 

[Batman]

^ Their are many options for in wall/in ceiling speakers with aimable tweeters and in some cases the entire baffle, Boston, Speakercraft, Klipsch to name a few with one or the other. They are not hard to find...

 

[Dennie]

Here are some motorized speakers that drop down when powered up.....

 

[Flint]

Figured.

So with in wall speakers...does "toeing them in" still apply? Is it necessary?

Well, you cannot really "Toe-In" and inwall speaker unless you use one of those less ideal designs shown above.

One of the benefits of toe-in is the effects of directionality of the drivers, which cannot be achieved with an inwall aiming directly forward.

Another improvement from toe-in is realized in the control of edge diffraction and the reinforcement of the baffle - both of which aspects are removed with a well designed in-wall system. So, there are some gains with in-walls over stand-alone speakers, but there could be some disadvantages to address. The tuning of the speaker to have a desired frequency response at 30 degress off-axis. One really cool advantage to aiming the baffle straight forward and listening 30-degrees off axis is that a designer can very easily time align the tweeter with the woofer. This is a good thing and one reason in-wall speakers can be great.

A drawback, however, is the direct reflection off the wall opposite the speaker. If the two walls are parallel (as most are), the direct sound from the speaker fired directly at the wall which reflects it directly back and a quite nasty continuous echo can be setup. So, with in-walls on a parallel-walled room the points directly opposite the in-wall speakers need absorbers or good diffusors to reduce that slap echo problem.

Basically, in-walls can potentially be superior, but considerations for ideal performance are different than with stand alone speakers. Not dramatically different, but different just the same.

 

[Yesfan70]

I think those inwalls look pretty cool, but I have to admit I'm really disappointed in SVS for dragging their feet on the LTS line of speakers.

To me, I have always looked at them as an affordable high end speaker company. Now I feel like with the direction they are going, that pretty soon we'll see Best Buys across the nation flooded with SBS speaker systems and then a few years after that they'll get bought out by a company like Audiovox.
Can you say "SVS....by Yorx"?

Hey, it happened to Klipsch.

 

[Dentman]

I'm glad to see this was finally mentioned,Edge reflection. This not a small point that should be over looked, in wall speakers have many advantages, problem is you need to understand a little about speaker design to spot them. I think these speakers from SVS are a very bold move and really will help out the guy who wants the best sound possible but has room limitations.

My advice to all who are trying to read IG is to stop trying to read IG. Throw your own ideas out there and if they get proven silly then learn from it and move on. If you feel strongly about your position stick buy it and own it. IG has forgotten more then I know but there are still a few things I don't agree with him on. I won't waiver from my position because of stubbornness, but because my ears tell me I'm right.

 

[TKoP]

I thought the shallow depth of the area behind the speaker driver was one of the major reasons why in-wall speakers were less than ideal. Is that not the issue that I thought?

 

[Zing]

I thought the shallow depth of the area behind the speaker driver was one of the major reasons why in-wall speakers were less than ideal. Is that not the issue that I thought?

I think it's the total volume of the enclosure, not any one dimension of it. If a driver needs 1 cubic foot of volume to perform properly, the enclosure doesn't have to be 12" x 12" x 12". 36" x 12" x 4" is still the same volume.

 

[Flint]

A short distance between a midrange driver's backside and a reflective rear wall of an enclosure can be very problematic. But, it can be addressed with the right design, either from absorption material or from creative relfection redirection or both. Ideally, the distance should be greater than 4", but the limitations of a 4" depth aren't the end of the world.

 

[Towen7]

For the benefit of the forum :eusa-whistle: these would be something I'd consider once I see the price point.

The SVS site says that they will be "Priced somewhat above their M-Series/02 brothers". The M-02s start at $899/PR. I'd expect the single mid driver version to be about $1K and the MTM design to be a few hundred more.

 

[yromj]

I think this will fill a big hole in the mass marketing arena: the lack of a true high quality in-wall speaker at a reasonable price. I also feel that filling that niche represents what's going on with the company and it's new vision. They are now more interested in mass-market appeal (people who would buy in-walls) instead of the smaller enthusiast crowd (people who would buy the LTSs).

:twocents-mytwocents:

John

 

[-B-]

I think this will fill a big hole in the mass marketing arena: the lack of a true high quality in-wall speaker at a reasonable price. I also feel that filling that niche represents what's going on with the company and it's new vision. They are now more interested in mass-market appeal (people who would buy in-walls) instead of the smaller enthusiast crowd (people who would buy the LTSs).

:twocents-mytwocents:

John

Dynaudio has in wall options and aren't new to the game as their automotive products are top notch and the designs are very similar.

 

[Voodoo]

Digging up and old thread.

I almost went with in-walls when I redesigned my HT room. The two big windows at the back of the room and the french doors were causing a problem though. I was looking at BG Radia.

Long throw woofer with ribbon mid and highs. Very, very wide sounds stage that's deep and provides good imaging.

V

 

[-B-]

What are those?