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What happens when Flint makes a Line Array?

A little inside the dugout discussion...

In order to design effective passive crossovers I need to get some accurate real-life measurements from the speakers, specifically DC Resistance and Inductance. I also need to measure the real parameters of the components going into the crossover because sometimes the tolerance variation between two capacitors, resistors, or inductors can be so great that I will want to do something about it. Also, if I am combining multiple capacitors to get an effective capacitance other than what is offered in the off-the-shelf models or if I want to unwind a stock inductor to get a value other than what is offered in the catalog, I need a means to accurately measure those components. As such, I've owned a high grade handheld LCR meter which measured Inductance (L), Capacitance (C) and Resistance (R) with relatively high precision.

Well, I paid a small fortune for this meter about 25 years ago when they were less common and the Chinese factories were not churning them out by the billions, so it is a tad special to me even though I could buy a new one today of similar accuracy for $50.

Anyway...

When I dug out my LCR Meter and installed a new battery in it, I was disappointed to discover the unit wasn't working properly. Would get a display and it would read out values when I attempted to measure things, but it was wonky. The resistance mode would take a long time to settle, longer than it should, and it would show different values every time I'd measure the same component. Even shorting the leads would result in a "zero" with a residual value which varied greatly between each test - i.e. with shorted leads it would read 0.03 one time, 0.00 another time, and 0.10 the next. That's not a good sign. Things were even more sporadic with the Inductance and Capacitance measurements. This was bothersome.

I decided that even though I could get a new meter for about $50 on Amazon and it would arrive in a day or two, I would attempt to get my trusty old friend back into shape. I made a bold assumption that the many contacts inside the meter were dirty or corroded and disassembled the unit and thoroughly cleansed the switch contacts with Caig DeoxIT D5 and a foam applicator. I also swept the user accessible zero calibration potentiometer about a hundred times, fairly aggressively. Then I separated the two circuit boards and cleaned the pin connectors and sockets with more DeoxIT D5 and foam applicator. After that I very carefully pulled the logic IC from its DIP socket, lightly cleaned the pins before reseating it. Lastly, I removed the protection fuse and used a burnishing tool to clean the socket and used DeoxIT D5 to wash off the ends of the fuse. The final step before reassembling the meter was to lightly spray the contact points with Caig PreservIT P5 contact lubricator and preservation solution. I allowed the disassembled unit to set exposed to the air to allow any residual and excess solutions to evaporate, then I carefully reassembled the unit.

When I fired it up to test things out, I was pleased to see it working as I remember. It was responsive, the controls responded properly, and the readings were what I expected. When measuring the resistance of shorted leads, I got a consistent 0.01 Ohms (which is what I got back in the day, I assume that 1/100 Ohm of resistance is the wire and alligator clips resistance), the inductance mode read exactly what I had handwritten on the four inductors I had in my parts drawer about 15 years ago, and the capacitance mode showed readings exactly in line with printed parameters on every different sized capacitor I tried (well within the rated tolerance). With a speaker driver, the Inductance meter played the 1kHz test tone and settled on a stable reading within about 5 seconds, which feels faster than my memory of the unit back in the day.

So, with about an hour of patiently and deliberately disassembling, cleaning, and reassembling my LCR Meter, it is back as my trusty side-kick I rely on for designing and building crossovers.

LCR_Meter_July2018.jpg
 
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The tweeters are now mounted and wired up, now I need to mount them on the line array baffles to measure. I got fancy and used heat-shrink tubing - my old heat gun still works!!!

LineArray10.jpg
 
Cool. What is the red? Is that a plastic "board" that you used for the tweeters? If so, why?
 
And now you must also build a proper anechoic chamber to take measurements in or people will think you half-assed this project. LOL

Again, nice work on all of it.
 
And now you must also build a proper anechoic chamber to take measurements in or people will think you half-assed this project. LOL

Again, nice work on all of it.

Dude.... you joke but once I get them perfect in the room I'm hauling one out to the street to measure in near anechoic (half plain)
 
So, I get lucky sometimes...

Today I mounted my tweeter arrays to the woofer arrays (they aren't full-range arrays anymore) and hooked them up with a fairly random 6dB per octave crossover just to protect them enough for me to run test tones through them and get an idea of what I need to do next. I measured the tweeters, nice enough. Then I measured the woofer at the same levels and noticed they were pretty much the same. Hmm....

So, I hooked them up together and wouldn't you know it, the two worked perfectly together. The measured response was pretty much flat from 90Hz to 20,000Hz. Wow! So, instead of futzing around with calculating resistor pads for the tweeters and contemplating crossovers, I spent the evening enjoying some amazing music.

I certainly did not expect it to work out this way.

I had two options for wiring the tweeters. There are six tweeters per side, so I could wire them in three sets of two or in two sets of three. One would have had an average impedance of 2.8 Ohms, which would be fine with a good solid state amp, and the other would have a combined average impedance of 6 Ohms - I chose the latter. The result was perfection. Man, I should play the lottery tonight.
 
So, with the tweeter array using an single-order crossover at approximately 2,500Hz and the woofer array with a single-order crossover at approximately 3,600Hz (too much overlap), the sound it surprisingly balanced. The midrange is a tad harsh at higher SPLs, especially with instruments or voices which have lots of energy in that midrange. That said, the midrange issues I was having initially are all but gone and that hollow tonality is completely gone.

I moved the speakers back towards the wall behind them about a foot and spread them apart a bit resulting in a listening distance of about 14 feet, which is really amazing. I am thinking that if I keep these I will put them as close to the wall behind them as I can, the tall wide baffles will counteract any rear wall reflection issues.

I am still taken aback at how strong the bass is, even though I can only measure appreciable output above about 80Hz. The bass is still very visceral and punchy. I may still build some subwoofer arrays just for fun to fill in the deeper bass below 80Hz, but I don't think I need to go below 40Hz as a goal.
 
What's most fascinating is that these speakers seem to suck you into turning them up louder and louder. It's crazy.
 
What's most fascinating is that these speakers seem to suck you into turning them up louder and louder. It's crazy.
I've experienced a similar phenomenon with my system. With every scotch I pour, the volume needs to be increased by 6dB.
 
So, with the tweeter array using an single-order crossover at approximately 2,500Hz and the woofer array with a single-order crossover at approximately 3,600Hz (too much overlap), the sound it surprisingly balanced. The midrange is a tad harsh at higher SPLs, especially with instruments or voices which have lots of energy in that midrange. That said, the midrange issues I was having initially are all but gone and that hollow tonality is completely gone.

I moved the speakers back towards the wall behind them about a foot and spread them apart a bit resulting in a listening distance of about 14 feet, which is really amazing. I am thinking that if I keep these I will put them as close to the wall behind them as I can, the tall wide baffles will counteract any rear wall reflection issues.

I am still taken aback at how strong the bass is, even though I can only measure appreciable output above about 80Hz. The bass is still very visceral and punchy. I may still build some subwoofer arrays just for fun to fill in the deeper bass below 80Hz, but I don't think I need to go below 40Hz as a goal.
Other than space and esthetics, what's the limit on panel width? Have you plotted multiple predicted response curves for widths varying from zero to infinity (you get my drift) for that size of driver / number of drivers? Does it show "diminishing returns" or do things just get better and better? I'm assuming a fixed height of basically floor to ceiling.

Curious mind(s) you know.

Jeff
 
Other than space and esthetics, what's the limit on panel width? Have you plotted multiple predicted response curves for widths varying from zero to infinity (you get my drift) for that size of driver / number of drivers? Does it show "diminishing returns" or do things just get better and better? I'm assuming a fixed height of basically floor to ceiling.

Curious mind(s) you know.

Jeff

With an open baffle configuration, the math for how the size of the panel affects the sound is very simple, so you don't need to plot anything.

Simply divide the speed of sound by the shorter width, then divide by four, the result is the frequency at which the panel reinforcement is 3dB down from all the frequencies above that number.

So, for my baffles with the total width of 44 inches (3.6666 feet) wide, the math is:

(Speed of Sound / Width) / 4 = cutoff frequency

1128 feet per second / 3.666 ft = 307.6 Hz

307.6 Hz / 4 = 76.9 Hz

So, my baffles are reinforcing the full output range of the woofers down to just below 80Hz.

The height of my speakers is 91.5 inches, so that is the greatest width I could make the baffles before the height becomes the shorter distance.

So, if I did happen to make my speakers huge squares which are 91.5" X 91.5", the resulting lowest frequency the baffles would effectively reinforce the sound is 37 Hz. I would love to try that, but then I am looking at two massively huge speakers which are over 7 1/2 feet wide. That's a little crazy, but I might try it out just for the hell of it if I can find some sheets of something I can temporally try out on them.
 
Just for shits and giggles I visited the Parts Express website and filled a shopping cart with the stuff I'd need to make an "array" for four 10 inch subwoofers per channel including a dedicated amplifier for each channel. I chose the cheapest 10" sub driver ($18 each) on their site, which got surprisingly solid reviews, to stay with my goals of using the cheapest components out there in this system. So far I have about $500 invested in this system, with an expectation that another $50 or so will be needed to finish the crossovers before I am completely done with the panels.

If I buy the items in my shopping cart to make subs, that would jump the price another $400 and I'll need to make cabinets and finish them to look pretty, which would be another approximate $75, or so. I'll round it up to $500 total for the sub arrays. I could, in theory, go with 6 subwoofers and really improve the bass and make them 6 feet tall, so I may investigate that.

The subs would be sealed cabinets and users on the Parts Express site claim they get good bass to 40Hz, or so, from a reasonably small sealed enclosure.

So, if I go with four of these 10" woofers per side, I could build two or four cabinets which stack up to make an array about 5 feet tall. That'd be cool looking, eh?

Or, I could go with 6 per side and get an array that's about 6 feet tall.

Hmmmmm….. I wonder if I should go down this path and end up with a system that costs about $1,000 for me to build - not including my time and some tools I purchased to get the job done.
 
Can you just integrate the subs into the extra width created by the "wings" you added? Maybe a face panel the same height as the main speaker?
 
Can you just integrate the subs into the extra width created by the "wings" you added? Maybe a face panel the same height as the main speaker?

Sure, I could. But I'll probably just stack em next to or behind the panels.
 
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